seebs

Gemma Therese (-se, not -sa) is a very, very, dogmatic person who is apparently Christian. I am not sure I understand what she believes; she doesn't seem to be a very good witness, anyway. I think she's probably a very nice person, who is trying very hard to help, but she doesn't understand atheists well enough to even talk to them.

I have known a lot of baptists whose God I admit that I reject. I'm what's called a "non-denominational" Christian by people who like me, and a "wishy-washy" Christian by people who don't.

Anyway, *DEFINITELY* don't go through the Catholic ceremony if you aren't serious about the Catholic beliefs; it would be just plain rude. If your SO wants a Catholic wedding, you could talk to the priest about it; most Catholic priests will *NOT* perform a marriage without lots of interviews and verification that you're serious, because, once they are convinced that you have a Catholic wedding, they do *NOT* believe in divorce. So... you'd at least get plenty of warning about problems.

Don't be in too much of a hurry to make up your mind; it's perfectly acceptable for you to be agnostic for a while, or even forever. Don't let people push you around; in the end, your belief in a hypothetical God is between you and that hypothetical God, and the rest of us don't have any right to a vote.

Goliath

seebs,

Well said! Such tolerance...that's absolutely unChristian of you!

Sincerely,

Goliath

PS Yes, I was serious, and yes, the above was meant as a compliment.

Jamie_L

It seems to me you either believe something or you don't. You can't change your belief just by deciding to. I believe I am talking to people on the other end of this internet connection. I can't just decide that I don't believe that. It's what I find, based on the evidence at hand, to be true.

Are you experiencing a tendancy to believe in God? Or are you experiencing a desire to be a part of a religion? The latter is not necessarily a matter of belief - there are many potential social and emotional benefits to being part of a religion (and many downsides too, I might add).

A deeper question, though, is have you really been an atheist at all? Have you believed there is no God? Or have you just rejected religious beliefs and people because you didn't like them? That's not really atheism, per se.

It sounds to me (as the uninformed outsider talking out of his arse) like you never really had a true lack of belief in god, but you just didn't care. You rejected religiousness because you didn't like it, but didn't seriously think about why it's not rational to believe in God. It sounds like now you still don't care, and thus are willing to slide into a religion to be closer to someone you care about, and to embrace all the comfort that religion can (but doesn't always) offer.

I say this based on my personal experience, which is that how I feel about people or about the benefits of any religion has no bearing on what I believe to be true. I may want certain aspects of God or Christianity to be true, but my desires are irrelevant to what is and what is not true. I may want to share a closer bond with my wife who has less skeptical beliefs in the supernatural. But I don't. My desires to share something with her also don't change the facts of the universe.

It sounds to me like you should carefully consider what you believe. No one should drift into religion. It's an indoctrination process, and you shouldn't take that lightly. The religion will shape your beliefs if your not careful, and that seems to me to be a bad thing. You should decide your beliefs for yourself, then decide if religion is right for you.

Read the Indidel's library. See if the arguements make sense to you. Then read some of the Bible. Go to a sermon or two. See if that makes sense to you. Don't ask if it feels good. Ask if it is reasonable to believe it is true.

That's my $0.02, anyway.

Jamie

Goliath

Jamie_L,

Careful! I think you're confusing atheism with strong atheism. Weak atheists (such as myself) don't believe that there is no god, they just don't believe that a god of any kind exists.

It's an extremely important distinction.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Toto

I watched a friend of mine convert to Christianity for social reasons. He needed a social group, he wanted to join a church, and he convinced himself he believed. Now he is drifting back to his original sort-of-deism.

It sounds like you decided you were an atheist for social reasons. Now you might try to describe yourself as a believer for social reasons, and you would probably find a number of people in whatever church you are in who have the same level of unbelief that you hold. (Probably along the lines of "there might be a god or some force in the universe and it doesn't hurt, and as long as the preacher doesn't dwell on hellfire I'll stick around the church but I'm not going to take most of it very seriously.") If you do marry this woman and have children, you will probably tell yourself that the church is a good aid in raising children.

Just be aware that infatuation doesn't last forever, and your newfound "theism" may look very silly in retrospect if you fall out of love.

seebs

Thanks. I would like to point out that, in fact, to the best of my knowledge that *is* the expected standard of behavior for Christians. Most of us suck at it most of the time; you've just caught me on a good day.

philechat

Hehe!

If the world's religious people would behave or think like seebs, I guess I would not be as depressed as I am now

The problem is, why is the Bible so ambiguous about the claims of tolerance, so that so many people misinterpreted it to justify religious intolerance?

It seems like the Buddha is clearer most of the time, doesn't it?

SLK230

I think you could only lose it if you never really had it. A believe isn't something to be lost or found. I think your belief system is being blinded by your desire for the woman you met and want to marry.
You probably suspect that she will not marry an atheist and that isn't what you want.

seebs

You could say "love your neighbor, even if he's of a hated and different religious group", and people would reinterpret it to suit their needs. (Think about the parable with the Samaritan; they were *not* people the Jews were inclined to be tolerant of.) I don't think a set of words exists in English that can't be interpreted so as to justify religious intolerance.

seebs

I don't buy this at all; I've met too many atheist ex-preachers, and ex-atheists, and ex-buddhists, and so on. Beliefs do change, even sincerely held and deep-seated ones.