Freethought & Rationalism Archive

scombrid · 07-01-2003, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
But he should realize that by trying to do that, he is no different than those who try to evangelize him.

.

One big fat glaring difference. They came to his door. If he has the time to kill I think he has every right to call bullshit and argue the point without it being considered evangelism.

I rarely confront. I generally say no thanks and leave it. If they push then I engage.

Rational BAC · 07-01-2003, 11:07 AM

Like I said before, it is his bag ---not mine.

If he wants to evangelize atheism OK with me.

"No thanks" "Will read these pamphlets some time" and a very short explanation of my faith and "goodbye" works fine for me. I do not choose to try to convert or deconvert anyone. I can tell in their eyes most of the time that it is just a damned required "job" for them. I believe in keeping things as simple as possible. And being as polite as possible.

In some ways I applaud the original poster's attempts to "proseletyze" atheism-----I think that in the case of JW's --atheism is probably a better choice. There is nothing I abhore more than the idea of a theocracy.--------which is at the base of Jehovah's Witnesses' theology.

But it is a waste of his time and theirs. He is not going to convince anyone in a very short period of time the error of their ways.

Why bother?

Biff the unclean · 07-01-2003, 11:45 AM

Why bother?

These are people who have such a low opinion of you that they will come to your door, stop you from doing whatever you are doing, without calling ahead, without knowing who you are or what you believe TO TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE WRONG. They don't even know what you believe but they are sure it is wrong anyway.
Personally I don't think that such an act of aggressive hostility should be met with politeness. I usually address it with a short stern lecture on social etiquette. If this has no effect and they show so little respect for my beliefs as to come into my own home to tell me they are wrong I feel relieved of any compulsion to show respect for their beliefs. I let them know point by point why they are wrong.
Their only defense is out of context bible quotes and once they realize that you do not consider the bible to be an authoritative source they are at a complete loss.
Apparently they do keep lists because I had one group leader on my doorstep say "oh, I was warned about you."

Rational BAC · 07-01-2003, 12:06 PM

Biff---

A spoonful of sugar works just as well. They don't bother me much either.

I think it is just a very distastefull "job" for most of them. And they like to be let off the hook. You can "let them off the hook" nicely or you can be a "hardass" about it. Both types accomplish the same result.

I'd rather not be a "hardass" about the whole thing.

What goes around comes around, you know.

scombrid · 07-01-2003, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
[B]Like I said before, it is his bag ---not mine.

If he wants to evangelize atheism OK with me.

Well, for starters it's not evangelism when they came to his door uninvited. He didn't see them riding their bikes on the sidewalk and say, gee those Jehova's witnesses there need to learn The Truth. They interupted his day and without solicitation.

Rational BAC · 07-01-2003, 12:27 PM

Evangelism is evangelism. There is no beginning to it. There is no end to it.

Personally --I do not believe in it in any way. I think the whole world would be better off if no one believed in it.

Chacun a son gout. To each his own. Let us all be tolerant.

That is my wish for the world.

Biff the unclean · 07-01-2003, 01:28 PM

I'd rather not be a "hardass" about the whole thing.

What goes around comes around, you know.

A lesson I learned in the school yard when I first showed up in this country with a heavy accent and horn rimmed glasses is that being nice only works with people who are already nice. Being nice to bullies does nothing but spur them on. The way to handle bullies is to pick one and beat the sh*t out of them. It works in the school yard, in bars, in international relations (notice how effective turning the other cheek after the USS Cole and embassy bombings was) and with religious bullies.
Instead of "Hey you, I don't like your face," the JW's pull a "Hey you, I don't like your beliefs." Then they hit you with drivel instead of a fist.
You can "let them off the hook" nicely� What?!! I'm supposed to feel sorry for them because "it is just a very distastefull "job" for most of them"? I do let them off the hook easy, I just slap them around intellectually and laugh out loud at their beliefs--the same thing they had come to my house to do to me. I could sic the dog on them instead.
You say " What goes around comes around, you know," and I agree with that. In fact that is precisely what I am advocating towards the JW's. If they are going to prey on the unwary, if they are going to be incredibly rude (Hell, I wouldn't drop by my own children's houses without phoning ahead, let alone a stranger's) then it's going to come around right back at them.

I just signed up for the government program that will forbid telemarketers from calling me. If the Feds had a way to block proselytizers I'd sign up for that too. Until then I intend to make their "job" as distasteful as legally possible.

Rational BAC · 07-01-2003, 01:56 PM

Biff----

As far as I have ever been able to tell----------It is just a stupid thing that JW's HAVE to do and Mormons HAVE to do. ===door to door evangelism. And I don't think any of them like it very much. Just something they HAVE TO DO.--to fulfill their obligations.

Hey----I like to make people's lives easier, not harder. There are so many people in the world who like to make life harder for others --I choose not to be one of those. Maybe you do.

I have never been nasty to Girl Scouts selling their over-priced cookies either----it is something they HAVE TO DO. I buy a box of cookies. Maybe 2 boxes.

I have never been nasty to any little kid supporting his school coming door to door either selling some stupid thing or other. It is something they HAVE TO DO. ---I buy something----ANYTHING. I was a little kid once trying to sell something door to door and I was SO PLEASED when someone would say "OK I'll buy it --whatever you got I'll buy it" ---------with a big smile on their face--it made my day.

You got to learn a little humanity Biff--

--Again--what goes around comes around.

Nowhere357 · 07-01-2003, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Biff the unclean
Instead of "Hey you, I don't like your face," the JW's pull a "Hey you, I don't like your beliefs." Then they hit you with drivel instead of a fist.

I understand what RBAC is saying, but still I agree with Biff on this. When the JW's or Mormons come calling, I am polite as I shred their presumptive arrogance and ignorant theology. NONE have ever come back.

Rational BAC · 07-01-2003, 02:23 PM

Biff--------

None of this means that you have to "buy" what anyone is selling as in the case of the Girl Scout cookies or the high school fund raising project-------

It just means that you can be "nice" even when turning something down. Again--sugar works better than vinegar in almost every case.

You would make a much better case for atheism or secular humanism ---underlining the human part of humanism. ----------if you are just "nice" about the whole thing.

You will make a much bigger impression on a propogandized and indoctrinated JW or a Mormon ---doing his yearly thing -------by saying (with a very big smile on your face) that you believe what you believe (or do not believe what you do not believe) and that is it--end of story --------

--------And not try to evangelize anyone at all with atheism, agnosticism or whatever belief system or non belief system you may have.

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07-01-2003, 11:07 AM	#42
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Like I said before, it is his bag ---not mine. If he wants to evangelize atheism OK with me. "No thanks" "Will read these pamphlets some time" and a very short explanation of my faith and "goodbye" works fine for me. I do not choose to try to convert or deconvert anyone. I can tell in their eyes most of the time that it is just a damned required "job" for them. I believe in keeping things as simple as possible. And being as polite as possible. In some ways I applaud the original poster's attempts to "proseletyze" atheism-----I think that in the case of JW's --atheism is probably a better choice. There is nothing I abhore more than the idea of a theocracy.--------which is at the base of Jehovah's Witnesses' theology. But it is a waste of his time and theirs. He is not going to convince anyone in a very short period of time the error of their ways. Why bother?

07-01-2003, 11:45 AM	#43
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	Why bother? These are people who have such a low opinion of you that they will come to your door, stop you from doing whatever you are doing, without calling ahead, without knowing who you are or what you believe TO TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE WRONG. They don't even know what you believe but they are sure it is wrong anyway. Personally I don't think that such an act of aggressive hostility should be met with politeness. I usually address it with a short stern lecture on social etiquette. If this has no effect and they show so little respect for my beliefs as to come into my own home to tell me they are wrong I feel relieved of any compulsion to show respect for their beliefs. I let them know point by point why they are wrong. Their only defense is out of context bible quotes and once they realize that you do not consider the bible to be an authoritative source they are at a complete loss. Apparently they do keep lists because I had one group leader on my doorstep say "oh, I was warned about you."

07-01-2003, 12:06 PM	#44
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Biff--- A spoonful of sugar works just as well. They don't bother me much either. I think it is just a very distastefull "job" for most of them. And they like to be let off the hook. You can "let them off the hook" nicely or you can be a "hardass" about it. Both types accomplish the same result. I'd rather not be a "hardass" about the whole thing. What goes around comes around, you know.

07-01-2003, 12:27 PM	#46
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Evangelism is evangelism. There is no beginning to it. There is no end to it. Personally --I do not believe in it in any way. I think the whole world would be better off if no one believed in it. Chacun a son gout. To each his own. Let us all be tolerant. That is my wish for the world.

07-01-2003, 01:28 PM	#47
Biff the unclean Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: an inaccessible island fortress Posts: 10,638	I'd rather not be a "hardass" about the whole thing. What goes around comes around, you know. A lesson I learned in the school yard when I first showed up in this country with a heavy accent and horn rimmed glasses is that being nice only works with people who are already nice. Being nice to bullies does nothing but spur them on. The way to handle bullies is to pick one and beat the sht out of them. It works in the school yard, in bars, in international relations (notice how effective turning the other cheek after the USS Cole and embassy bombings was) and with religious bullies. Instead of "Hey you, I don't like your face," the JW's pull a "Hey you, I don't like your beliefs." Then they hit you with drivel instead of a fist. You can "let them off the hook" nicely�* What?!! I'm supposed to feel sorry for them because "it is just a very distastefull "job" for most of them"? I do let them off the hook easy, I just slap them around intellectually and laugh out loud at their beliefs--the same thing they had come to my house to do to me. I could sic the dog on them instead. You say " What goes around comes around, you know," and I agree with that. In fact that is precisely what I am advocating towards the JW's. If they are going to prey on the unwary, if they are going to be incredibly rude (Hell, I wouldn't drop by my own children's houses without phoning ahead, let alone a stranger's) then it's going to come around right back at them. I just signed up for the government program that will forbid telemarketers from calling me. If the Feds had a way to block proselytizers I'd sign up for that too. Until then I intend to make their "job" as distasteful as legally possible.

07-01-2003, 01:56 PM	#48
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Biff---- As far as I have ever been able to tell----------It is just a stupid thing that JW's HAVE to do and Mormons HAVE to do. ===door to door evangelism. And I don't think any of them like it very much. Just something they HAVE TO DO.--to fulfill their obligations. Hey----I like to make people's lives easier, not harder. There are so many people in the world who like to make life harder for others --I choose not to be one of those. Maybe you do. I have never been nasty to Girl Scouts selling their over-priced cookies either----it is something they HAVE TO DO. I buy a box of cookies. Maybe 2 boxes. I have never been nasty to any little kid supporting his school coming door to door either selling some stupid thing or other. It is something they HAVE TO DO. ---I buy something----ANYTHING. I was a little kid once trying to sell something door to door and I was SO PLEASED when someone would say "OK I'll buy it --whatever you got I'll buy it" ---------with a big smile on their face--it made my day. You got to learn a little humanity Biff-- --Again--what goes around comes around.

07-01-2003, 02:23 PM	#50
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Biff-------- None of this means that you have to "buy" what anyone is selling as in the case of the Girl Scout cookies or the high school fund raising project------- It just means that you can be "nice" even when turning something down. Again--sugar works better than vinegar in almost every case. You would make a much better case for atheism or secular humanism ---underlining the human part of humanism. ----------if you are just "nice" about the whole thing. You will make a much bigger impression on a propogandized and indoctrinated JW or a Mormon ---doing his yearly thing -------by saying (with a very big smile on your face) that you believe what you believe (or do not believe what you do not believe) and that is it--end of story -------- --------And not try to evangelize anyone at all with atheism, agnosticism or whatever belief system or non belief system you may have.

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