Freethought & Rationalism Archive

ps418 · 05-06-2003, 07:16 AM

Matt Ridley, author of the bestselling science book Genome: The Autobiography of a Species in 23 Chapters, and all-around great writer on various evolutionary topics, has a new book out addressing Ye Olde nature-nurture debate. My copy arrived in the mail yesterday, and I just started reading it, but so far it's great. Of course, Ridley is saying something that has been said for a long time -- that there is no real dichotomy between nature and nurture, and both interact continually to shape what we are. But Ridley explains well exactly what that means, using a variety of examples.

I love Ridley's writing style. He is exceptionally adept at analogies. For instance, he discusses how suprised many were to find that humans are genetically so similar to chimps, yet few would be surprised to learn that totally different books have, say, 90% lexical concordance, because we understand that the information is primarily in the arrangement of the words and you can use the same words to tell and infinite array of stories.

I highly recommend.

Nature Via Nurture : Genes, Experience, and What Makes Us Human

Patrick

Tara · 05-07-2003, 10:45 AM

ps418- Sorry to change books, but I'd be curious as to your and other's opinion of "The Selfish Gene"? Are the views Dawkins expresses well accepted? It's an odd book in that it's not fiction per say, but it certainly seems like it. I know, probably because it's written on the lay person's terms... and a science fiction like read was his intention.

Also, I've not read anything of evolution; someone suggested I should read Darwin's "Origin of the Species" before anything else. But didn't he get some things wrong? Wouldn't it be better to read a more modern explanation?

thanks...

hehe oops... I just noticed I'm not even in the "evolution" forum. sorry, mods must despise me

Still want to know tho...

ps418 · 05-07-2003, 10:57 AM

I haven't read the Selfish Gene, so I can't recommend it. I have read about a quarter of The Origin, but it bores me to tears. I can recommend a good book for you though. Actually, two good books.

The first is Darwin's Ghost, which is something like an Origin of the Species updated for the 21st century and filled with interesting examples. The second is Ernst Mayr's What Evolution Is, which is neither too techinical nor too simplified and covers all sorts of evolutionary topics.

Patrick

Leigh · 05-07-2003, 10:59 AM

Steve Jones' 'Almost Like A Whale' is good - it's sort of an updated version of Darwin's Origin

God Fearing Atheist · 05-07-2003, 11:05 AM

I like Dawkins stuff. Its always lively, and serves as a nice intro to various aspects of evolutionary biology.

I agree with Patrick on OoS.

-GFA

ps418 · 05-07-2003, 11:05 AM

"Almost like a Whale" is the same book as "Darwin's Ghost," by the way. Darwin's Ghost is the US title.

Patrick

gcameron · 05-07-2003, 12:32 PM

Chapter 6 of the Origin is wonderful. I haven't been able to get through the rest of the book.

I'm not sure there's that much in The Selfish Gene which is controversial, at least within evolutionary science. I know Gould opposed Dawkins's thesis that the gene is the fundamental unit of selection, but a lot of the ideas in TSG, it seems to me, would hold regardless of whether one accepts this view.

BioBeing · 05-07-2003, 02:37 PM

I've added those Ridley books to my (ever growing) Amazon wish list...

And I give a hearty second to Ernst Mayr's "What Evolution Is" as an intro to Evolution. I'm about half way thru' - its very well written, and a great book for old hands or new alike.

05-06-2003, 07:16 AM	#1
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	Matt Ridley: Nature via Nurture Matt Ridley, author of the bestselling science book Genome: The Autobiography of a Species in 23 Chapters, and all-around great writer on various evolutionary topics, has a new book out addressing Ye Olde nature-nurture debate. My copy arrived in the mail yesterday, and I just started reading it, but so far it's great. Of course, Ridley is saying something that has been said for a long time -- that there is no real dichotomy between nature and nurture, and both interact continually to shape what we are. But Ridley explains well exactly what that means, using a variety of examples. I love Ridley's writing style. He is exceptionally adept at analogies. For instance, he discusses how suprised many were to find that humans are genetically so similar to chimps, yet few would be surprised to learn that totally different books have, say, 90% lexical concordance, because we understand that the information is primarily in the arrangement of the words and you can use the same words to tell and infinite array of stories. I highly recommend. Nature Via Nurture : Genes, Experience, and What Makes Us Human Patrick

05-07-2003, 10:45 AM	#2
Tara Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Florida US Posts: 67	Re: Matt Ridley: Nature via Nurture ps418- Sorry to change books, but I'd be curious as to your and other's opinion of "The Selfish Gene"? Are the views Dawkins expresses well accepted? It's an odd book in that it's not fiction per say, but it certainly seems like it. I know, probably because it's written on the lay person's terms... and a science fiction like read was his intention. Also, I've not read anything of evolution; someone suggested I should read Darwin's "Origin of the Species" before anything else. But didn't he get some things wrong? Wouldn't it be better to read a more modern explanation? thanks... hehe oops... I just noticed I'm not even in the "evolution" forum. sorry, mods must despise me Still want to know tho...

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05-07-2003, 10:57 AM	#3
ps418 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 1,840	I haven't read the Selfish Gene, so I can't recommend it. I have read about a quarter of The Origin, but it bores me to tears. I can recommend a good book for you though. Actually, two good books. The first is Darwin's Ghost, which is something like an Origin of the Species updated for the 21st century and filled with interesting examples. The second is Ernst Mayr's What Evolution Is, which is neither too techinical nor too simplified and covers all sorts of evolutionary topics. Patrick

05-07-2003, 10:59 AM	#4
Leigh Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: England Posts: 27	Steve Jones' 'Almost Like A Whale' is good - it's sort of an updated version of Darwin's Origin

05-07-2003, 11:05 AM	#5
God Fearing Atheist Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Massachusetts, USA -- Let's Go Red Sox! Posts: 1,500	I like Dawkins stuff. Its always lively, and serves as a nice intro to various aspects of evolutionary biology. I agree with Patrick on OoS. -GFA

05-07-2003, 12:32 PM	#7
gcameron Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Western U.S.A. Posts: 293	Chapter 6 of the Origin is wonderful. I haven't been able to get through the rest of the book. I'm not sure there's that much in The Selfish Gene which is controversial, at least within evolutionary science. I know Gould opposed Dawkins's thesis that the gene is the fundamental unit of selection, but a lot of the ideas in TSG, it seems to me, would hold regardless of whether one accepts this view.

05-07-2003, 02:37 PM	#8
BioBeing Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 6,004	I've added those Ridley books to my (ever growing) Amazon wish list... And I give a hearty second to Ernst Mayr's "What Evolution Is" as an intro to Evolution. I'm about half way thru' - its very well written, and a great book for old hands or new alike.

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