Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bubba · 12-26-2002, 06:40 PM

Over on Christian forums

"I have skimmed over that article about radiometric dating and...I will trust my source, Bob Jones University about it because the person who wrote it claims that the earth is Billions of years old, which is false. If it was showing Radiometric dating methods to give dates no higher than 10,000 years then I might be intersted, but it doesn't, he still claims sadly, like most "Christians", that the earth is billions of years old."

The most amazing case of denial that I have seen in awhile...

Bubba
:boohoo:

:banghead: :banghead:

Jobar · 12-26-2002, 07:10 PM

Back in the fall '01 issue of free inquiry magazine, Richard Dawkins did an op-ed piece titled "Sadly, an Honest Creationist"- about Kurt Wise, who has a Ph.D. in geology from Harvard. From the article:

"[He] became increasingly uneasy as his scientific learning conflicted with his religious faith. When he could bear the strain no longer, he clinched the matter with a Bible and a pair of scissors. He went right through from Genesis 1 to Rev. 22, literally cutting out every verse that would have to go if the scientific worldview were true. At the end of this exercise, there was so little left of his Bible that

...try as I might, and even with the benefit of intact margins throughout the pages of scripture, I found it impossible to pick up the Bible without it being rent in two. I had to make a decision between evolution and scripture. Either the scripture was true and evolution was wrong, or evolution was true and I must toss out the Bible... It was there that night that I accepted the Word of God and rejected all that would ever counter it, including evolution. With that, in great sorrow, I tossed into the fire all my dreams and hopes in science.

See what I mean about pathetic? Most revealing of all is Wise's concluding paragraph:

Although there are scientific reasons for accepting a young Earth, I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand.

See what I mean about *honest*?"
(from the vol. 21, no. 4 issue of free inquiry)

Dawkins himself uses the word 'doublethink' later in the article. And he admits that if all creationists were as self-blinded as Wise, then all our efforts to convince creationists that their precious Genesis is wrong are in vain. Scary...

Bubba · 12-26-2002, 07:15 PM

To me this is one of the saddest things in creationism. Kurt Wise is probably the smartest YEC around, yet denies most of what science tells us about the natural world.

Amazing.

Bubba

Shadownought · 12-26-2002, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jobar
Either the scripture was true and evolution was wrong, or evolution was true and I must toss out the Bible... It was there that night that I accepted the Word of God and rejected all that would ever counter it, including evolution.

Wow. Unbelievable.

scigirl · 12-27-2002, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bubba
...I will trust my source, Bob Jones University...

Akk! That's scary...

scigirl

Secular Pinoy · 12-27-2002, 05:40 AM

Here's an online copy of that article. Interestingly, there's a thread in ChristianForums about it.

scigirl · 12-27-2002, 01:08 PM

Secular Pinoy,

That thread is just so sad. Here's what one person has to say:

Quote:

Project 86:
Don't feel sad for us creationists. There is nothing wrong with taking God at his word over faulty assumptions. In fact many arguments for evolution during the Scopes Trial now have been thrown out my other evolutionists over the years since then. That just gives you and idea what there is no reason to feel sad. Evolutionary "science" changes, the Bible doesn't.

Isn't that just freaking sad? I mean, every single scientific theory has been revised since it was discovered - that is a strength of science, not a weakness! He's right - the Bible hasn't changed since it was first organized. It started as a bunch of mythological stories written by primitive men (and 2 women I guess), and that's still what it is.

scigirl

Coragyps · 12-27-2002, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Evolutionary "science" changes, the Bible doesn't.

But it's even sadder than you say, Scigirl, because the Bible has "changed" over the years: all but a very few ultrafundies now say that the Bible was "just using a figure of speech" when it said that the Earth is immovable and the Sun goes around it. Cardinal Bellarmine, back in his admonitions of Galileo, certainly said that he knew better, and that scripture as well as all the Fathers of the Church had taught that arrangement as fact. And Martin Luther called Copernicus several ugly names, to represent the Protestant viewpoint. Today's fundies are so utterly ignorant of their own history that it just leaves me with my jaw on the desk. :banghead:

Albion · 12-28-2002, 12:42 AM

Kurt Wise might want to take a pair of scissors to the state of scientific research if all the science behind evolution and an old earth and universe is false. He'd have as little left as he has left of the Bible, and with much more cause.

CALDONIA · 12-28-2002, 04:01 PM

I once read a quote by Nietzsche:

"Faith is not wanting to know what is true."

12-26-2002, 06:40 PM	#1
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	Another creationist blinded by Dogma Over on Christian forums "I have skimmed over that article about radiometric dating and...I will trust my source, Bob Jones University about it because the person who wrote it claims that the earth is Billions of years old, which is false. If it was showing Radiometric dating methods to give dates no higher than 10,000 years then I might be intersted, but it doesn't, he still claims sadly, like most "Christians", that the earth is billions of years old." The most amazing case of denial that I have seen in awhile... Bubba :boohoo: :banghead: :banghead:

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12-26-2002, 07:10 PM	#2
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Back in the fall '01 issue of free inquiry magazine, Richard Dawkins did an op-ed piece titled "Sadly, an Honest Creationist"- about Kurt Wise, who has a Ph.D. in geology from Harvard. From the article: "[He] became increasingly uneasy as his scientific learning conflicted with his religious faith. When he could bear the strain no longer, he clinched the matter with a Bible and a pair of scissors. He went right through from Genesis 1 to Rev. 22, literally cutting out every verse that would have to go if the scientific worldview were true. At the end of this exercise, there was so little left of his Bible that ...try as I might, and even with the benefit of intact margins throughout the pages of scripture, I found it impossible to pick up the Bible without it being rent in two. I had to make a decision between evolution and scripture. Either the scripture was true and evolution was wrong, or evolution was true and I must toss out the Bible... It was there that night that I accepted the Word of God and rejected all that would ever counter it, including evolution. With that, in great sorrow, I tossed into the fire all my dreams and hopes in science. See what I mean about pathetic? Most revealing of all is Wise's concluding paragraph: Although there are scientific reasons for accepting a young Earth, I am a young-age creationist because that is my understanding of scripture. As I shared with my professors years ago when I was in college, if all the evidence in the universe turns against creationism, I would be the first to admit it, but I would still be a creationist because that is what the word of God seems to indicate. Here I must stand. See what I mean about honest?" (from the vol. 21, no. 4 issue of free inquiry) Dawkins himself uses the word 'doublethink' later in the article. And he admits that if all creationists were as self-blinded as Wise, then all our efforts to convince creationists that their precious Genesis is wrong are in vain. Scary...

12-26-2002, 07:15 PM	#3
Bubba Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Orient, OH USA Posts: 1,501	To me this is one of the saddest things in creationism. Kurt Wise is probably the smartest YEC around, yet denies most of what science tells us about the natural world. Amazing. Bubba

12-27-2002, 05:40 AM	#6
Secular Pinoy Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Quezon City, Philippines Posts: 1,994	Here's an online copy of that article. Interestingly, there's a thread in ChristianForums about it.

12-28-2002, 12:42 AM	#9
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	Kurt Wise might want to take a pair of scissors to the state of scientific research if all the science behind evolution and an old earth and universe is false. He'd have as little left as he has left of the Bible, and with much more cause.

12-28-2002, 04:01 PM	#10
CALDONIA Regular Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Sunnyvale,CA Posts: 371	I once read a quote by Nietzsche: "Faith is not wanting to know what is true."

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