Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Autonemesis · 06-26-2002, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TPaine:
I'd like to speak to atheist or non-religious students to get their take on this to see if they feel left out or are offended.

Yes, I did. Yes, I wished I was not forced to recite it when I was in school. Yes, it probably contributed to the resentment I have against Public Displays of Piety to this day.

Is There Anything Else You Want To Know?

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Kind Bud ]</p>

Toto · 06-26-2002, 02:00 PM

Quote:

"I'm an American citizen," Mr. Newdow said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I don't like my rights infringed upon by my government."

. . .

"Every constitutional lawyer I talked to told me, `There is no question it is unconstitutional,' " Mr. Newdow said in a 1999 interview, "and there is no question that you will lose."

As Mr. Newdow's remarks implied, issues surrounding the flag have as much to do with emotion and politics as they do with jurisprudence. . . .

GunnerJ · 06-26-2002, 02:01 PM

Opie and Anthony bashed it? Oh dear...

I have mixed feeling now too. I can't honestly say that this is a great victory. This could be just the thing that rockets GWB into a second term. The thing is, it's so easy to inflate this out of proportion. "The Pledge is illeagal!! Godless commies are taking over the country! You can have my bible when you pry it from my cold dead hands!!!" How can people be this STUPID???

I told my mom about this when she got home. She said it was ridiculous because "everyone believes in some sort of god." I asked her how she knew, but I really wanted to say, "I don't." I'm more afraid to say those words now than ever. This could backfire, unbelievably.

Some fuckwits on Faux News were talking about how when the pres and congress and people across the nation rail against this, will the judge say "hmmm... maybe this wasn't a good idea!" the other assborg responded that the type of arrogance nessisary to make this desiscion would prevent reconsideration. FUCKING FUCKING STUPID FAUX NEWS!

Edited to add: Well, at least the Simpsons are showing the Movementarians episode. Maybe that will stem the tide a little bit.

[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Rimstalker ]</p>

liquid · 06-26-2002, 02:03 PM

Halleluejiah!

but....

it is the most overturned court of appeal in the country apparently... don't hold your breath.

Vorkosigan · 06-26-2002, 02:08 PM

'kin hell! Oh frabjous day!

Good to see, though.

Vorkosigan

MacPrince · 06-26-2002, 02:10 PM

A new poll on CNN: "Do you agree with the court decision that ruled the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional?"

<a href="http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/moneyline/" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/moneyline/</a>

As of right now it's 43% Yes to 57% No.

Autonemesis · 06-26-2002, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Writer@Large:
I've seen so much vitrol, so much *hatred* and anger on the news in the last hour ... am I the only one feeling a little put out by my own country? Are people, when it comes down to it, really this ignorant and disgusting and tactless?

--W@L

Yes. That is what you must expect from people who cannot take responsibility for their own ethical life.

Baloo · 06-26-2002, 02:13 PM

WOOHOO!!! And I quote, from a letter I sent to my state representative a few months ago:

Quote:

...any child who might otherwise opt not to recite the pledge is certain to feel a coercive form of peer-pressure, entirely supported by a government employee in a position of authority, to participate in the pledge nonetheless.

Second, the Pledge of Allegiance itself remains an undeniable casualty of an irrational political wildfire of the 50's known as "McCarthyism", when its purely patriotic intent was altered, blemished, and ultimately diminished by the subversive addition of the words "under God". With these words, a pledge originally drafted to call a nation to unite becomes a pledge which can only serve to divide.

A fact: no atheistic, agnostic, Wiccan, Native American, or other American child with a non-judaic religious background can recite the altered Pledge of Allegiance without renouncing the religious beliefs he or she holds. For any non-parental adult to put a child into an environment where he or she is pressured to do so is immoral; for the US government, it is simply unconstitutional.

The Dionysian · 06-26-2002, 02:16 PM

"Yes, I did. Yes, I wished I was not forced to recite it when I was in school. Yes, it probably contributed to the resentment I have against Public Displays of Piety to this day."

How long has it been since you've been in school? Also I was saying I'd like to speak to kids now to find out their feelings on the subject.

Writer@Large · 06-26-2002, 02:40 PM

<a href="http://www.falwell.com/pledge_petition.php" target="_blank">Jerry Falwell has started a petition drive.</a> Dingus.

--W@L

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06-26-2002, 02:01 PM	#173
GunnerJ Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want Posts: 4,871	Opie and Anthony bashed it? Oh dear... I have mixed feeling now too. I can't honestly say that this is a great victory. This could be just the thing that rockets GWB into a second term. The thing is, it's so easy to inflate this out of proportion. "The Pledge is illeagal!! Godless commies are taking over the country! You can have my bible when you pry it from my cold dead hands!!!" How can people be this STUPID??? I told my mom about this when she got home. She said it was ridiculous because "everyone believes in some sort of god." I asked her how she knew, but I really wanted to say, "I don't." I'm more afraid to say those words now than ever. This could backfire, unbelievably. Some fuckwits on Faux News were talking about how when the pres and congress and people across the nation rail against this, will the judge say "hmmm... maybe this wasn't a good idea!" the other assborg responded that the type of arrogance nessisary to make this desiscion would prevent reconsideration. FUCKING FUCKING STUPID FAUX NEWS! Edited to add: Well, at least the Simpsons are showing the Movementarians episode. Maybe that will stem the tide a little bit. [ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: Rimstalker ]</p>

06-26-2002, 02:03 PM	#174
liquid Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: UK Posts: 1,440	Halleluejiah! <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> but.... it is the most overturned court of appeal in the country apparently... don't hold your breath.

06-26-2002, 02:08 PM	#175
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	'kin hell! Oh frabjous day! Good to see, though. Vorkosigan

06-26-2002, 02:10 PM	#176
MacPrince Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: A suburb of Chicago you've probably never heard of Posts: 282	A new poll on CNN: "Do you agree with the court decision that ruled the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional?" <a href="http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/moneyline/" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/moneyline/</a> As of right now it's 43% Yes to 57% No.

06-26-2002, 02:16 PM	#179
The Dionysian Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: who knows Posts: 154	"Yes, I did. Yes, I wished I was not forced to recite it when I was in school. Yes, it probably contributed to the resentment I have against Public Displays of Piety to this day." How long has it been since you've been in school? Also I was saying I'd like to speak to kids now to find out their feelings on the subject.

06-26-2002, 02:40 PM	#180
Writer@Large Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,198	<a href="http://www.falwell.com/pledge_petition.php" target="_blank">Jerry Falwell has started a petition drive.</a> Dingus. --W@L

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