Freethought & Rationalism Archive

cloudyphiz · 06-26-2002, 10:22 AM

<a href="http://apnews.excite.com/article/20020626/D7KD0CLO1.html" target="_blank">has anyone else heard about this?</a>

Richard1366 · 06-26-2002, 10:25 AM

Hot off the net. Now I can't wait to listen to all of the fundies SCREAM.

Mageth · 06-26-2002, 10:30 AM

Hadn't heard about it yet. However:

"It was not until 1942 that Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance. One year later, in June 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that school children could not be forced to recite it. "

"Under God" was not added until 1954. I suspect that the "under god" statement is the part their ruling would reflect on.

Toto · 06-26-2002, 10:30 AM

Quote:

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned a 1954 act of Congress inserting the phrase "under God" after the words "one nation" in the pledge. The court said the phrase violates the so-called Establishment Clause in the Constitution that requires a separation of church and state.

"A profession that we are a nation 'under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation 'under Jesus,' a nation 'under Vishnu,' a nation 'under Zeus,' or a nation 'under no god,' because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion," Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel.

So much for "ceremonial Deism". I bet this gets appealled.

UnaffiliatedOld · 06-26-2002, 10:31 AM

Thanks for the link. There isn't much coverage of this.

Lone Wolf · 06-26-2002, 10:32 AM

Yep... it's apparently true. CNN just announced it and will be talking about it on their "TalkBack Live" program shortly...

You can be sure the fundies will have their panties in a twist over this one!!!

Stephen Maturin · 06-26-2002, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:
<strong>I bet this gets appealled.</strong>

It'll be appealed alright, and immediately unless the losers think they can get a better result by requesting that the 9th Circuit reconsider the decision en banc. Any bets on whether Diana, Mary and Flo will take the case?

Sephiroth · 06-26-2002, 10:42 AM

This ruling is going to affect the entire country?

I'm totally shocked, the fundies are gonna rave like hell.

Mageth · 06-26-2002, 10:42 AM

I would disagree with the statement the link in the OP post makes - "...and cannot be recited in schools." I would assume that under the ruling, the pledge with "under god" can be recited in schools by students if they so wish (I would hope their right to freedom of speech would prevail) - just not as a school-sponsored or required pledge.

Toto · 06-26-2002, 10:43 AM

From Findlaw:

Court: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals
Topic: Constitutional Law, Education Law
Title: NEWDOW v. US CONGRESS
Date: 06/26/02
Case Number: 00-16423
Summary: The addition of the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag (via 1954 federal statute), and a school district policy of teacher-led daily recitation of the Pledge, with the added words included, violate the First Amendment's Establishment Clause.

Newdow was a pro se litigant - it doesn't look like he even had the ACLU or AU or FFRF on his side.

06-26-2002, 10:22 AM	#1
cloudyphiz Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: rochester, ny, usa Posts: 658	a ruling on the constitutionality of the pledge <a href="http://apnews.excite.com/article/20020626/D7KD0CLO1.html" target="_blank">has anyone else heard about this?</a>

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06-26-2002, 10:25 AM	#2
Richard1366 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,260	Hot off the net. Now I can't wait to listen to all of the fundies SCREAM.

06-26-2002, 10:30 AM	#3
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Hadn't heard about it yet. However: "It was not until 1942 that Congress officially recognized the Pledge of Allegiance. One year later, in June 1943, the Supreme Court ruled that school children could not be forced to recite it. " "Under God" was not added until 1954. I suspect that the "under god" statement is the part their ruling would reflect on.

06-26-2002, 10:31 AM	#5
UnaffiliatedOld Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 105	Thanks for the link. There isn't much coverage of this.

06-26-2002, 10:32 AM	#6
Lone Wolf Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 383	Yep... it's apparently true. CNN just announced it and will be talking about it on their "TalkBack Live" program shortly... You can be sure the fundies will have their panties in a twist over this one!!!

06-26-2002, 10:42 AM	#8
Sephiroth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 625	This ruling is going to affect the entire country? I'm totally shocked, the fundies are gonna rave like hell.

06-26-2002, 10:43 AM	#10
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	From Findlaw: Court: 9th Circuit Court of Appeals Topic: Constitutional Law, Education Law Title: NEWDOW v. US CONGRESS Date: 06/26/02 Case Number: 00-16423 Summary: The addition of the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag (via 1954 federal statute), and a school district policy of teacher-led daily recitation of the Pledge, with the added words included, violate the First Amendment's Establishment Clause. Newdow was a pro se litigant - it doesn't look like he even had the ACLU or AU or FFRF on his side.

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