Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Lone Wolf · 09-09-2002, 02:18 PM

<a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/showcase/chi-020909atheist.story" target="_blank">Chicago Tribune:</a>

Quote:

A self-described atheist sued the city of Chicago on Monday in an effort to stop Mayor Richard M. Daley's planned downtown prayer ceremony and other events being held to commemorate the anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"I would think it would be offensive to any atheist � not the prayers but the mayor holding them," said Clint Harris, a 49-year-old unemployed former resale shop proprietor.

This is getting quite a bit of coverage here today. Mr Harris and his attorney are granting interviews, but the city isn't...

Tom Sawyer · 09-09-2002, 02:30 PM

It's a nice idea, but a futile gesture.

Religion has become so linked to patriotism since 9/11 that any attempt to challenge religion (Christian, that is, not the funny pagan ones that the good people of the Christian nation of America deign to tolerate) is viewed the same as challenging America and its patriotic spirit in this time of rememberance and blah, blah, blah

Secular Elation · 09-09-2002, 03:21 PM

Why bother?

Stephen Maturin · 09-09-2002, 03:54 PM

From the article:

Quote:

City spokeswoman Jenny Hoyle said Monday that the prayer had been written by a group of religious leaders and would be read by someone they chose � not by the mayor. * * *

She said the ceremony is privately funded and the prayer would be just one feature along with poetry and other readings.

Chicago public school children will not be asked to participate in prayers, she said. She said the schools will have a moment of silence to remember the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Assuming all this is true, any First Amendment challenge is exceptionally weak at best.

Lone Wolf · 09-09-2002, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Maturin:
Assuming all this is true, any First Amendment challenge is exceptionally weak at best.

According to what's been said so far (by the attorney, and by a Loyola Constitutional 'expert' - the city has only issued the statement in the article), it's actually a valid legal plea. The city is sponsoring and promoting these events - in public locations.

While I agree there's little chance of winning this one (mostly because Chicago's City Hall is akin to the Vatican), the argument is valid... government should not be sponsoring and promoting religious activities on public land. Period.

Lone Wolf · 09-09-2002, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Secular Elation:
Why bother?

Yeah... what good did "bothering" do slaves, women, and gays? Should we just sit back and be quiet like good little sheep? Win or lose, it's still a plus that atheists are speaking up with more regularity and bringing the issues into the media. Why bother, indeed.

GaryP · 09-09-2002, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lone Wolf:

Yeah... what good did "bothering" do slaves, women, and gays? Should we just sit back and be quiet like good little sheep? Win or lose, it's still a plus that atheists are speaking up with more regularity and bringing the issues into the media. Why bother, indeed.

Hear, Hear!
<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Stephen Maturin · 09-09-2002, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lone Wolf:
[G]overnment should not be sponsoring and promoting religious activities on public land. Period.

I agree completely, Lone Wolf. I just don't think that precedent is on the plaintiff's side here. Of course, that's no reason to refrain from giving it a go.

I assume that tomorrow's hearing is about whether or not an injunction will issue. That'd be damned interesting to watch. Do you know if anyone is planning to televise it?

Lone Wolf · 09-09-2002, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stephen Maturin:
Do you know if anyone is planning to televise it?

I've not heard anything about any coverage for this hearing. In fact, I can't say that I can recall any court case being televised in Chicago. I doubt this would be the first.

Here's the Mayor's Office page on the events:

<a href="http://www.cityofchicago.org/SpecialEvents/RemembranceCeremony.html" target="_blank">Chicago Remembers September 11, 2001 </a>

(note the little disclaimer at the bottom...)

GaryP · 09-09-2002, 06:31 PM

This is an excerpt from Americans United ;

Americans United objects to what Daley's office calls the "centerpiece" of the program -- a mass recitation of "the Chicago Prayer of Hope, Unity and Remembrance." According to the mayor's office, the city-commissioned prayer was written jointly by prominent religious leaders of Chicago.

The official city prayer will apparently be printed and distributed at government expense to the memorial ceremony audience. It will also be distributed to local churches, synagogues and mosques.

<a href="http://www.au.org/press/pr090502b.htm" target="_blank">Americans United</a>

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09-09-2002, 02:30 PM	#2
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	It's a nice idea, but a futile gesture. Religion has become so linked to patriotism since 9/11 that any attempt to challenge religion (Christian, that is, not the funny pagan ones that the good people of the Christian nation of America deign to tolerate) is viewed the same as challenging America and its patriotic spirit in this time of rememberance and blah, blah, blah

09-09-2002, 03:21 PM	#3
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	Why bother?

09-09-2002, 06:31 PM	#10
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	This is an excerpt from Americans United ; Americans United objects to what Daley's office calls the "centerpiece" of the program -- a mass recitation of "the Chicago Prayer of Hope, Unity and Remembrance." According to the mayor's office, the city-commissioned prayer was written jointly by prominent religious leaders of Chicago. The official city prayer will apparently be printed and distributed at government expense to the memorial ceremony audience. It will also be distributed to local churches, synagogues and mosques. <a href="http://www.au.org/press/pr090502b.htm" target="_blank">Americans United</a>

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