Freethought & Rationalism Archive

JohnV · 11-13-2002, 08:43 AM

Re: AmenMoses

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Don't be coy John, you do see it as different otherwise you wouldn't be so eager to change it!

Hehe. Do you also think that Fr Andrew must have seen a difference, else he wouldn't have changed from the opening scenario?

Why didn't you call him on it, if you think this issue is so important? He's the one that left the topic! Why do you think he did that?

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Now you have been presented with a different case as a thought experiment but brush it aside to get back to your own pet case, why? Could it be that you do not see the alternative case as being "as wrong" or "as harmful" as the one you wish to pursue? If this is so then doesn't this indicate that even your black and white moral stance may really be covering up a greyer reality?

At a guess I would say that your 35 & 7 scenario is based on probably your age and that of your daughter which is an understandable way of arguing but is counter-productive to a discussion of the issues because having constructed such a personal angle you end up responding emotively to every post rather than actually thinking it through.

Ooh, neat analysis - too bad it was Bryan who picked the ages and genders in the other thread!

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Now tell me why you think the two are different?

Why aren't you grilling Fr Andrew on the point - he started it!

Your bias is showing!

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(btw when you dismiss a post with "that is not the behaviour of a 7 year old" upon what authority do you speak of all 7 year olds?)

Just my personal experience. I've never met a 7-year-old whose behavior was typical of 'Penthouse Forum.'

[ November 13, 2002: Message edited by: JohnV ]

JohnV · 11-13-2002, 08:55 AM

Fr Andrew - AmenMoses seems to think that the issue of gender in the scenario is extremely important. Care to tell us why you changed the adult from a man to a woman?!?

Amen-Moses · 11-13-2002, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnV:
Fr Andrew - AmenMoses seems to think that the issue of gender in the scenario is extremely important. Care to tell us why you changed the adult from a man to a woman?!?

Because he didn't have an example of I would think.

Now please answer my question.

Amen-Moses

JohnV · 11-13-2002, 10:07 AM

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Because he didn't have an example of I would think.

Er...how about SAME THING EXCEPT THE WIDOWED AUNT IS A WIDOWER UNCLE?

Amen-Moses · 11-13-2002, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnV:
Er...how about SAME THING EXCEPT THE WIDOWED AUNT IS A WIDOWER UNCLE?

Ok so how does that make it different?

I can't personally think of an case example of that particular situation (it is only recently that single men have even been allowed to adopt so it would be a rarity) but I suppose the similar situation could occur.

So does that answer your impossibility criteria?

Are you going somewhere with this or are you just going to keep moving the goalposts and refusing to answer my questions like in every other discussion we have ever had?

(btw as an explanation for the lurkers (before I get crucified by the mods

) myself and JohnV have a long history of this sort of thing, nomatter what the subject)

Amen-Moses

JohnV · 11-13-2002, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Ok so how does that make it different?

Again, ask Fr Andrew - he's the one that made the change.

Go ahead and keep hounding me on this - I'll keep reminding everyone of your hypocrisy in not asking Fr Andrew for an explanation, although he was the one that changed the scenario!

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So does that answer your impossibility criteria?

What 'impossibility criteria' of mine are you referring to? Please quote me.

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Are you going somewhere with this or are you just going to keep moving the goalposts and refusing to answer my questions like in every other discussion we have ever had?

As in other discussions, I will choose whether to answer questions that lead off my topic.

In this case, it's rather ridiculous - you should be asking Fr Andrew for an explanation, as he's the one who changed the scenario.

I call him on it, and I get hounded for it?

I see you 'debate' the same way here as you do elsewhere.

Amen-Moses · 11-13-2002, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnV:

"Under what circumstances would it be possible for an adult to "comfort" a child sexually, but impossible for the adult to comfort the child non-sexually? "

This was the question that was being answered I think.

Mind you it is difficult to keep track when you keep changing the question.

Amen-Moses

Fr.Andrew · 11-13-2002, 11:52 AM

JohnV--I will offer you the same deal I offered Mr Cygnus. When you apologize for lying about me, I will consider dealing with you and your foolish comments and questions. Until then, this will be the last time I will respond to you directly.

Fr.Andrew · 11-13-2002, 12:31 PM

Amen Moses, feel free to challenge JohnV to show where I've "changed" a scenario. The only mention of age and gender (beyond JohnV's desperate strawmen) was by Bryan last spring on the Kiddie Board. He asked if I thought sex between a 7-year-old and a 35-year-old man would be appropriate. I answered that it wouldn't turn me on (or some such thing), and then made this statement:
"I can imagine circumstances under which a physical relationship with an adult neighbor or friend may be the only source of nurturing that a child gets..."
and I also said:
"I think that when a child is neglected and ignored, he may be better off for any attention given to him by an adult, any evidence that he is wanted."
I mentioned no age. I mentioned no gender.

This pretense of JohnV's that the situation would be different were the relationship were between a adult woman and a young girl than it would be if it were between an adult man and a young girl (or boy) is disingenuous cowflop and shows yet another of his disturbing prejudices.

sentinel00 · 11-14-2002, 06:58 AM

Once cannot argue for the general in the particular. The OP is therefore a waste of bandwidth.

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11-13-2002, 08:55 AM	#72
JohnV Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: . Posts: 132	Fr Andrew - AmenMoses seems to think that the issue of gender in the scenario is extremely important. Care to tell us why you changed the adult from a man to a woman?!?

11-13-2002, 11:52 AM	#78
Fr.Andrew Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Betsy's Bluff, Maine Posts: 540	JohnV--I will offer you the same deal I offered Mr Cygnus. When you apologize for lying about me, I will consider dealing with you and your foolish comments and questions. Until then, this will be the last time I will respond to you directly.

11-13-2002, 12:31 PM	#79
Fr.Andrew Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Betsy's Bluff, Maine Posts: 540	Amen Moses, feel free to challenge JohnV to show where I've "changed" a scenario. The only mention of age and gender (beyond JohnV's desperate strawmen) was by Bryan last spring on the Kiddie Board. He asked if I thought sex between a 7-year-old and a 35-year-old man would be appropriate. I answered that it wouldn't turn me on (or some such thing), and then made this statement: "I can imagine circumstances under which a physical relationship with an adult neighbor or friend may be the only source of nurturing that a child gets..." and I also said: "I think that when a child is neglected and ignored, he may be better off for any attention given to him by an adult, any evidence that he is wanted." I mentioned no age. I mentioned no gender. This pretense of JohnV's that the situation would be different were the relationship were between a adult woman and a young girl than it would be if it were between an adult man and a young girl (or boy) is disingenuous cowflop and shows yet another of his disturbing prejudices.

11-14-2002, 06:58 AM	#80
sentinel00 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Mayor of Terminus Posts: 7,616	Once cannot argue for the general in the particular. The OP is therefore a waste of bandwidth.

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