DoubleDutchy

Magus, this is something I never understood:
Being a robot without a free will is certainly a sad condition.
Thus I guess souls in heaven will dispose of a free will. As I understand, crime doesn't occur heaven (please correct me if I am wrong), free will doesn't seem to imply the occurrance of crime in heaven . Then why does it imply the occurance of crime on earth? Conditions here and there are very different of course, but that's not the point. It is possible to have free will without crime (sin if you like). Then why weren't we created that way right from the beginning ?

PS Don't hesitate to say that you don't know, as might be the case. IMHO that would be a major step forward.

malookiemaloo

I think there is a basic misapprehension here re free will.

Strictly speeking Adam and Eve were the only ones to have free will. We do not. Our free will is effectively a freedom to sin.

Hence our 'free will' therefore does indeed include crime.


m

Rhea

So answer the question about heaven, please.

Are the souls in heaven robots?
Is there crime in heaven?

Why can't we implement this upgrade to earth, NOW? Is it because God wants to wait for some more little kids to be tortured first?

When a manufacturer creates a product that is found to be dangerous, they must immediately stop rpoduction and recall the items that have alreqady been sold while they fix the problem. To wait for - what, the third quarter sales figures - before implementing the safety upgrade would be wrong and immoral.

What would a Christian theocracy look like in terms of product liability. One should, after all, strive to act godly, should one not?

Treacle Worshipper

Once again, Magus, if you had bothered to even look at the article you would have seen that it was a news report on Myra Hindley's death, and has nothing to do with atheism at all. It would also have saved you showing yourself up by claiming that we don't know what Lesley Ann prayed when we have it on tape!

And this was my point here: Furthermore, if you had bothered to read the link, you would have seen that Hindley repented and converted to Xianity. Therefore, according to Xianity, it is possible that Hindley is in heaven, but some of her victims are not.
Please will you answer this, Magus? It seems to me that a god who can permit a murderer to live in bliss while her unfortunate victims continue to be tortured is not exactly a loving god.
TW

malookiemaloo

I heaven there is complete freedom from sin-both the fact of sin and it's consequences.

Robots? No. God already has His robots. They are called angels. Redeemed humans are a different a (and higher) order. And there is 'nothing unclean' there.

The consequences of sin are indeed dreadful bit Christians (or anybody else) are not promised to be kept safe from them. God promises to be with them when life fires it's slings and arrows. But if people refuse to trust Him.......................it's hardly His fault.

Why does God not end this life now? The Bible gives the answer. Because of His patience in giving more time for sinners to repent. (Sorry if I appear to be evangelizing-I never do this on the Sec web but sometimes it's the only way to answer a question.)

But one day 'every tear will be wiped dry' and 'the former things will not be brought to mind, neither will they be remembered'. Sublime thought eh?

m

Rhea

Okay.

So. TODAY, God is giving time for sinners to repent While at the same time non-sinners are being tortured perhaps to the point of renouncing God.

But SOME DAY God is going to stop giving time. At which point all will be roses & light.

Does this not make your head spin? You have just said, Yes, Rhea, God must want to have time for more little children to be tortured.

Today or some day. It's just an arbitrary cut-off point. The manufacturer can recall the dangerous items now, or later. Why not keep producing them while they work on the new design? Hey, it givers them time to come up with the new design. So what if some more little kids are injured. That's not important because the new product will come out eventually. I do NOT want to live in your world.

As for not remembering, LOL. That's precious. I always love that idea. I'm a good christian mother but several of my children sin and reject christianity. But I won't care once I'm in heaven that they are burning in hell, because I won't remember them." And does the bible support this? Doesn't the bible say that those in heaven will be able to see the suffering in hell? Isn't there a specific, detailed story about that happening? Ah, but what's the big deal about watching your own child tortured for eternity. I won't let it bother me.


The mind boggles how people can find this comforting.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by malookiemaloo
Robots? No. God already has His robots. They are called angels.

You mean that before Satan fell, he was a robot-like being without free will?

MrDarwin

That's quite right, because how could Satan do anything that God--Satan's omniscient creator--did not both want and intend Satan to do?

malookiemaloo

Sorry off home now.

Will sleep on the origin of evil and reply tomorrow!


m

Robert G. Ingersoll

Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world, red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight, jesus loves the little children of the world - IN BED!!!