Freethought & Rationalism Archive

SmashingIdols · 05-02-2002, 08:18 AM

Well folks, it took awhile, but it looks like we managed to find our "stone-age morality" homo-phobe we were asking for to get this debate rolling! Now if only we leap over the incredible gaps we will encounter communicating with this relic...

Jojo: Do you need an interpreter and typist?

I suggest we start with basics dude -

1+ 1 = 2 TRUE
1+ 0 = 2 FALSE

Are you still with us?

Viti · 05-02-2002, 09:02 AM

Yes jojo...I am sure that homosexuals choose to be judged, harassed, discriminated against, threatened and/or harmed by people like you and Bubba Redneck because something like maybe a rejection of some kind happened in their past. That is perfectly clear and concise reasoning.

[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: LadyShea ]

SmashingIdols · 05-02-2002, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Jojo: so all u infidel out here wont mind if ur kids come home with the homo partner

Jojo, it would appear that the biggest difference between my family and your's is that I would be concerned if my 5 year-old brought home any friend displaying sexual preference of any type. I would be concerned about what is happening to the child. Were things a little different for you as a child?

When she is a teenager I would have no qualms about her having gay friends - maybe just having sexually active friends of any type (depending what age teenager). In fact, if she has sexually active friends, I hope THEY ARE GAY! (even if she is also gay).

(worries about having all girls...

)

[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: SmashingIdols ]

free12thinker · 05-02-2002, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jojo-sa:


stick and stones can brake my bones but never can never hurt.

u know this???

homo make a decision and a ignorant one as well.

look into most homo's past you will see at some time or other they were rejected or something or other went wrong so they made the wrong decision

the homo decision

.
so all u infidel out here wont mind if ur kids come home with the homo partner

hey pop check out my new homo ?? do u like it?

I wouldn't be upset if my daughter was a lesbian. I will also add that a lot of my friends are gay. And they come over all the time.

Is this wrong? Maybe they'll rub off on my daughter. Oh my goodness. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

Okay. That's enough. Simply put, you have no grounds for claiming that people simply choose to be gay. Enough Said. You're obviously having fun with your annoying rants, and that's fine too. We're above that. We're here to discuss topics in a mature way, with careful thought and such. You employ no thought. You simply take what you believe and run with it, yet offer no logic.

I guess you believe that God makes the rules, and that's cool too. He hates the gay community. Than so should you right? That's the way to follow.

Good boy.

Captain Pedantic · 05-02-2002, 11:17 AM

Well, I don't remember choosing to find women attractive. Maybe I have demons! That would be exciting - I have a gay demon!

Go to <a href="http://www.demonbusters.com" target="_blank">Demonbusters</a> for more information on how everyone has demons. Warning: this site is stupid. I found it in RRP.

As for the majority rule, well, I find that most issues are not cut-and-dried. However, issues such as how to correctly use the English language are very much based on rules. Simple things like that have rules.

Jack the Bodiless · 05-14-2002, 05:14 AM

A quote from British fundies John Burn and Nigel McQuoid (from <a href="http://www.christianpublications.co.uk/html-publications/schoolcu.htm" target="_blank">here</a>):

Quote:

Predominantly today, society is fed on its own hunger for self, subjectivity, relativism and peace through an ignored conscience. "If it is all right for you and it doesn't hurt anyone else, then do it" is the prevailing, pervading and profoundly anti-Christian view of this Age. Unless this is countered by a positive Christian viewpoint delivered across and beyond the taught curriculum, these are the views that will seep into our young people. They already absorb this message from their magazines and TV screens. Are we to stand back and watch the very same absorbed in our classrooms?

Note the utter lack of coherent thought. "If it is all right for you and it doesn't hurt anyone else, then do it" seems entirely harmless (very similar to "An it harm none, do as ye wilt"): there is no justification given for the implication that this is "selfish" or requires an "ignored conscience". It is simply assumed that the reader will understand that this is somehow wrong, because it's declared to be "profoundly anti-Christian".

"Are we to stand back and watch the very same absorbed in our classrooms?" Nope, we should be actively working to ensure that it's absorbed in our classrooms!

This is what I find so worrying about religious fundamentalism, the sheer, moronic stupidity of those who promote it. No consideration whatsoever has been given to determining whether "If it is all right for you and it doesn't hurt anyone else, then do it" actually IS immoral, and why this might be so. It's a knee-jerk reflex.

HelenM · 05-14-2002, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless:
No consideration whatsoever has been given to determining whether "If it is all right for you and it doesn't hurt anyone else, then do it" actually IS immoral, and why this might be so. It's a knee-jerk reflex.

It's not that...it's that if God says it's wrong there's no point discussing it or arguing about it. Even if you do think you have a great way of justifying it being ok. It doesn't matter what you think if God says it's wrong.

And they do believe God says it's wrong - since there are Bible passages saying so.

love
Helen

free12thinker · 05-14-2002, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenSL:


It's not that...it's that if God says it's wrong there's no point discussing it or arguing about it. Even if you do think you have a great way of justifying it being ok. It doesn't matter what you think if God says it's wrong.

And they do believe God says it's wrong - since there are Bible passages saying so.

love
Helen

But why does God think it's wrong? Why does he consider it sinful? Or does he just pick these things out of a hat. And todays sin: "Basket weaving with a tank top on". Mark it down!! I say it's wrong, therefore it is!!!

Please!

I've always told people that I have no problem with people who are spiritual, people who believe in God, nor do I think I am above them. The only people I put myself ahead of are those who do not think for themselves, yet believe they are right on all accounts. Those who get their morals, thoughts and ideas from another person. This is what kids do when they are being raised by their parents, but then they reach a certain age and they have to carve out their own basis of thoughts. Have you gotten there yet?

HelenM · 05-14-2002, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by free12thinker:
The only people I put myself ahead of are those who do not think for themselves, yet believe they are right on all accounts. Those who get their morals, thoughts and ideas from another person. This is what kids do when they are being raised by their parents, but then they reach a certain age and they have to carve out their own basis of thoughts. Have you gotten there yet?

Have I got there yet? Are you talking to me or in general?

Here's a quote from a post I wrote on another thread recently...

Quote:

I wrote this to the local newspaper late last fall (it was printed - this is my copy but they pretty much printed it 'as is). It was in response to a column written by someone who decided to write about 'what is hateful' for Thanksgiving instead of 'what to be thankful for'.

Dear Editor,

I'm having a hard time being thankful for []'s column last week.

She obviously gets her values from the Bible, to say "I'm convinced homosexual behavior is wrong". People who don't, don't make that kind of assertion about the mutually consentual behavior of other adults. They have no basis for doing so. If Ms [] didn't have the Bible to fall back on I think she'd be rather hard-pressed to explain why she believes anything that other people willingly do with one another, is 'wrong'. Let alone why she feels justified in publically proclaiming her views.

Ms [] perhaps thinks she is being well balanced by going on to say that 'homosexual bashing' is hateful. This shows that, like a lot of Christians, she just doesn't really understand what 'bashing' is. What if I felt compelled to proclaim publically to anyone listening, that I'm convinced her hairstyle and her clothes were wrong, based on some standard that seemed totally arbitrary to her? I suppose she wouldn't feel the least bit 'bashed'...as long as I also asserted that I think 'bashing' is hateful. Of course someone who believes that cannot have been engaging in any, by definition. If she was somehow feeling 'bashed' then she would be having an unwarrantedly negative emotional response to me, that's all. It would clearly be her problem, not mine.

Anyway, why on earth, if Ms [] truly believes the Bible, is she writing about 'things to be hateful for'? If she's read the whole Bible she must be aware that it also says "give thanks in all circumstances". How is writing about what is hateful, "giving thanks"? Did she forget that part? What about where it says "whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things" 'Hateful' is not on that list! Did she miss that?

Regarding her comments about what 'is wrong', I could also bring up "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." But she will already have learned (probably at church) how to rationalize that telling other people their behavior is wrong, is not what Jesus was talking about. Of course not. Or she wouldn't do it, would she?

I am also wondering, can it be possible that Ms [] believes there is still an actively homosexual reader in [my village] who hasn't heard from some Christian or other that their behavior is 'wrong'? Was there a need to say it again? I suppose Ms [] must have felt she had good reason to write what she did, though. In which case, God bless her; I hope she is right. And it could be that if she reads this letter she'll wonder why I am 'judging' her and why I am not being 'thankful' - if I am a Bible believer myself. She'll think I'm a hypocrite. And she'll probably be right, if she thinks that. But, there's always an upside - she can be thankful that I've given her a headstart on next year's list of things to be hateful for: Christian hypocrites!

Helen Mildenhall

Do I think for myself? What do you think?

love
Helen

free12thinker · 05-14-2002, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HelenSL:


Do I think for myself? What do you think?

love
Helen

I enjoyed the article, but it still doesn't answer the question. I was replying to your post in which you stated, if gods says something is wrong, than it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, it's just wrong.

Do you believe this very thing?

If you do, than I question your strength and intelligence. People who are weak-minded follow others, no questions asked. Some Christians follow God's word to a tee, without any explanation.

Why is homosexuality immoral? Because God says it is. This is your reply. It's a weak reply, as it contains no reasoning.

05-02-2002, 09:02 AM	#62
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Yes jojo...I am sure that homosexuals choose to be judged, harassed, discriminated against, threatened and/or harmed by people like you and Bubba Redneck because something like maybe a rejection of some kind happened in their past. That is perfectly clear and concise reasoning. [ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: LadyShea ]</p>

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05-02-2002, 08:18 AM	#61
SmashingIdols Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 153	Well folks, it took awhile, but it looks like we managed to find our "stone-age morality" homo-phobe we were asking for to get this debate rolling! Now if only we leap over the incredible gaps we will encounter communicating with this relic... Jojo: Do you need an interpreter and typist? I suggest we start with basics dude - 1+ 1 = 2 TRUE 1+ 0 = 2 FALSE Are you still with us?

05-02-2002, 11:17 AM	#65
Captain Pedantic Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: UK. Posts: 588	Well, I don't remember choosing to find women attractive. Maybe I have demons! That would be exciting - I have a gay demon! Go to <a href="http://www.demonbusters.com" target="_blank">Demonbusters</a> for more information on how everyone has demons. Warning: this site is stupid. I found it in RRP. As for the majority rule, well, I find that most issues are not cut-and-dried. However, issues such as how to correctly use the English language are very much based on rules. Simple things like that have rules.

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