Harumi

That's what we've been doing lately, giving him something else to think about.

I'm not very skilled at it, but my mother is. He's the closest to her, being with her all day.

Maybe I'm just impatient. I know I'm definitely not ready for kids. I don't have the temperament for it.

There are times when he will listen and do as we ask. At other times when he's screaming and throwing a fit, ignoring him usually works as well. He goes off crying, then comes crawling back for a hug, where there are usually kisses and cuddlies afterwards.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing either. I know my mother won't physically hurt him. And as for my father well...he hasn't done anything yet. It might be because he has yet to find something displeasing about my brother. At the moment it's just fondness for the cute baby. That's what caused the violence toward me in the first place. I experienced none when I was a kid. It was only during middle school and onwards that things truly started to turn horrid.

We haven't spanked him yet. Light taps on the butt, hands, and thighs once in a while, but that's about as violent as it gets.

I'm not sure if that's considered abuse or not. My abuse started later. My other brother's never been abused at all. I'm not sure if it's going to start for my baby brother as well.

What really worries me is how I'm going to turn out when I have kids of my own.

brighid

Well, you have control over that. You get to chose how you will treat your children and what kind of parent you will be. Just because you have been abused doesn't mean you will be the same way. You can learn appropriate parenting skills, patience and non-violent methods of parenting. You are not doomed to repeat your parents mistakes, unless of course you either fail to learn or chose to do as they did.

You are WAY too young to consider having children any way You have plenty of time and you should have them when you are most ready. I am not sure that any one is every truly ready for a child, because having a child changes your life drastically and in my opinion those changes are by and large for the good. Go to college, explore the world, discover who you are and what you want out of life, date, challenge yourself, handle triumph and disappointment away from your family and when the time is right have children with a man who loves, honors and respects you for all that you are.

I grew up in a verbally, emotionally, and physically abusive household, and I think I turned out to be a pretty good parent. I simply chose to be different from my family and create the kind of love, affection and security I never really had. That is one of the beauties of adulthood - choice.

Brighid

Claudia

Harumi,
Ignoring him (with an eye for real danger) is probably the better solution. But also, remember to to ask too much for a 2 years old. It is nor mal to be very active at this age.
My mom who was taecher in "ecole maternelle" (kindergarten part of the primary school in France, can accept some 2 years old even if it is not the most frequent) called this group of age "the furniture movers" which means that you have to provide them something to move, which involves minimum danger.

Jagged

Spanking is not just a physical punishment it is an emotional one. Someone who supposedly loves you is hurting you. Intentionally causing you pain. That is not just correction that is trauma.

I was rarely spanked as a child but can still remember the times I was with alarming clarity and fear. Also I remember such a feeling of helplessness.

I have a question: in 2-parent households, why is it most often the father who will be responsible for spanking a child? For me, the times my Dad spanked me were about the only times he ever intentionally spent time with me or gave me his full attention. Looking back, I wonder if the reason my Dad did the spanking was because he wasn't as attached to me as my Mom.

Here is a very good article about the psychology involved in spanking for both parents and children. Exerpt:

Jagged

another excerpt: Sometimes I think one reason spanking is so vehemently defended is because it is so easy. Much easier to give a spanking than to carefully discuss behavior with your child, or think about how to discipline in other ways. People don't want to have to bother with really spending time with their kids and especially not with *thinking* thru things like this. It is inconvenient.

One extremely important point:

WHY SO LITTLE EMPHASIS ON REWARDING *GOOD* BEHAVIOR?

Across the board, in many species, studies have shown reward is much more effective for behavior management than is punishment. But how often does anyone talk about reward as a parenting technique? I suspect that one reason is that parents don't feel the *urgency* to reward good behavior as they do to punish bad behavior. And because of that rewarding gets catagorized as non-essential. How many non-essential things do we end up doing when we're caught up in the endless hassles of everyday life? And we're probably the "busiest" society on the planet.

brighid

Jagged,

Only your dad can answer those questions. However, I do think (in general) that mothers naturally have a more intimate emotional bond with their children by the mere fact that they are the ones responsible for growing this life inside of their womb, bringing it forth, caring for, nurturing and feeding a child (for the majority of it’s life.) Unfortunately, that isn’t always the case nor does it mean that fathers aren’t emotionally invested in their children, but it does seem to be easier for a man to walk away from his children (generally speaking) then women. If this is a deliberate “design” feature I personally consider it immensely flawed as many of the issues of child abuse and neglect could be overcome if both parents shared equal physical, emotional and financial responsibility for their offspring.

I see a change in the way modern day fathers relate to their children as opposed to how our fathers, or grand fathers may have related to their children. I think that is in large part due to the differences in socialization and improvements in our knowledge about human development. My husband, despite not being the biological father to my child, is very much hands on and involved in our sons life. My father wasn’t exactly like that except for physical punishment time. My father was never taught parenting skills because his parents were even worse then he was. The same goes for my mother’s family. Even they have changed many of their authoritarian, draconian parenting styles with their grandchildren. I know a huge part of our familial dysfunction was due to my parent’s emotional immaturity. 18 and 20 (in their cases) was simply too young to have children. I would say it is too young in most cases. They did their best with what they had and at times it wasn’t very much.

I also do not think that all parents who spank do so because they are lazy, but most really believe (as they were taught) that this is an effective method of discipline or punishment. Some due, but I think most parents are well intentioned even if they are misinformed, frustrated, or otherwise.

Parenting should be a choice, a well-informed and conscious choice. It shouldn’t be one made of obligation to a marital bed, or because of societal pressure. In those cases where one becomes a parent under less then ideal circumstances I think there should be more community resources and support to help a parent, or parents cope with the transition and all the very difficult things parenting will present to them.

Sparing the rod will not spoil the child. Permissive parenting will spoil a child, but choosing not to spank won’t. It’s unfortunate that so many American parents believe in this type of punishment as effective (outside of the aforementioned exceptions). Yet we wonder why our society is so violent and there are such a plethora of families to make it on shows like Jerry Springer, Jenny Jones, etc. I doubt any of those people were parented authoritatively.

Brighid

Jagged

Heyheyheyheyheyheyhey I think I'm really onto something!!!:

What if the focus on and preference for using punishment for bad behavior as opposed to reward for good is a direct reflection of the doctrine of human depravity? In the Bible, humans are intrinsically bad and deserve punishment! Yahweh was a punative authoritarian! And if we go around believing that people are fundamentally depraved and deserve punishment (this being taught to us by our own parents and culture), we're going to see bad in people before we see good! We will be expecting our children to "mess up" and the whole thing becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy? Ergo, we will only or mainly be interested in dishing out negative reinforcement! Which is a very ineffective means of correction, and will only lead to more violence and delinquency?! WHAT IF the high level of violence in this country is DIRECTLY LINKED TO OUR HIGH LEVEL OF CHRISTIAN RELIGION?

This is a revelation in my book. Geesh, how long will it take me to unravel the mindfuck that Christianity effected on my brain?

Claudia

I do not remember my father touching me for punishment My mother did, but rarely. But I still remember a spanking I got from a kindergarten teacher when I was 4!
I do not remember my husband touching my kids for punishment either. And he yells a lot less that me, so when he does it is a lot more efficient.
My daughter also have a lot of authority on her brothers.
Harumi, if your brother get more kisses and cuddlies when he stop crying than when he didn't cry at all, it is positive reinforcement for crying then stopping instead of being always (?) quiet.

Sometimes,redirection and positive reinforcement can take strangeways:
I remember once we were at restaurant with the kids (we have gone to restaurant with them from babyhood). My older son was 7 1/2. As he was bored waiting, we taught him to make additions in base 2 on the paper table cloth.
We also have some hand tricks to play with wine / cider corks...
As a result, they always were quiet in restaurant.

Harumi

Claudia,

I didn't quite understand that sentence. I'm very very sorry.
Could you reword it?

Harumi

Age also has a large factor as well.

My father, when I was little, believed that hitting a child was the only way to correct behavior.

As he was beaten as a child and has been brought up to think that this was normal and correct, it is no wonder why. My mother on the other hand, was not.

It caused large fights on their part, I can tell you that.

But now my father's a lot older. He has never hit my brother. He might growl at him when he's bad, but never hitting, nor spanking. He's also more patient with him than he ever was with my other brother and me.

As people grow older, I suppose they 'mellow' out. Maturity is definitely a factor too.

And I know I'm not ready for kids. I don't want kids. I intend to be secure in a job before I even marry, so no kids. Nope. Besides, seeing my mother go through labor terrified me. *shudder*

It's a good way to scare irresponsible teenagers, having them witness a laboring woman.