Vicar Philip

Well, this past week has been kind of quiet on the religious front, but I had an hour-long conversation with my wife about it last weekend. I once again presented my viewpoints, and stressed to her that I felt Christianity was a fairy tale, the Big Lie.

She responded by typing a loooong e-mail to our former pastor, a very intelligent man whom I deeply respect, despite his occupation . In it she reiterated what I have shared with you folks, concerning her getting kicked out of the Sunday School, and then told him the real problem she had now was my loss of faith. She told me in an IM session we had a few days ago (I was on my lunch break!) that she had adopted as her personal mission ME. To bring me back to Jay-sus!! I was taken aback somewhat. Do I really deserve such attention?

I'm being a bit facetious, but I do feel a little bad about abandoning the Sunday School music program. The two ladies that teach it have no idea I've heard the REAL good news, and I'm not sure it would be to anyone's benefit that I told them. I think I'll find some other excuse and bow out gracefully. But you can't, my wife implores, what about Christmas?? And the singing in church that you always accompany? Sorry babe, not this year.

As I mentioned earlier, I have told my 13 year old how I believe, and one thing my wife wrote in her long e-mail bothers me. She said: "I couldn't forgive him IF he tells them that (it) is ok to not believe in God & to question the Bible." That doesn't seem fair to me. Is this something worth confronting her about?

Sorry if I seem so wishy-washy on all this, it's just foreign to me to actually have these kinds of discussions with my wife. She has said that if she'd known I felt this way, she'd never have married me. Ouch.

Just saw a great Nova that talked about Galileo. Whenever I feel sorry for myself about being an atheist, I just think of the world he lived in. THAT would suck.

Again, thank you for all your advice and insights.

Ronin

Well, I thought this was going to be another one of those euphemisms threads, but since I'm here ~

x-xian, you rock.

Other than that, I refer you back to Puck 1:4 ~

And your wife? She needs time to adjust. Relax. And quit being sneaky! Of course you have a right to express your feelings to your own children, but perhaps you can slow down a bit? The written word is powerful, just talk to your kids if it comes up for now. Once everyone adjusts, including you, you will know how to handle things comfortablly.

Among the other great advice, that sums up the necessary framework for peace.

HelenM

Yeah really

But bear in mind that people often say things they don't really mean, when they are scared and upset. It sounds like she's really thrown by your newfound atheism. It might take her a while to adjust to what it does and doesn't mean in your relationship.

Personally, it would seem odd to me if a church would want to try to push an atheist into playing in their services/worship/events. I would think many churches would rather have no guitarist than an atheist guitarist. No offense - but I do think that's what they would choose because they would want 'like-minded' musicians.

I think other people here who are married to Christians will tell you that their spouses were similarly thrown when they disclosed their lack of belief, but things have settled down since then.

Not that it's easy - but, then, marriage never is easy in my opinion. One of my beliefs is that having a good marriage requires some effort. Maybe you can do something special for your wife so she not only hears the words "I love you" but you can show her you still do, drawing on what you know about what she would find most special. It sounds like the focus has been on what you don't agree on and what you don't want to do, lately. But if you can do a special thing and/or focus on your common interests - I expect you do have some which don't relate to religion per se - maybe that will help her feel less scared about what this means to her and the relationship.

Keep us posted...

take care
Helen

openeyes

It seems to me that you've been getting good advice from a number of people, but I'm afraid you're in for some uncomfortable times for awhile. I'm hoping that your wife will see by your actions in other areas that you still love her, but unfortunately, she probably thinks that you need to come back to "jay-sus" to really prove your love. Once you've heard "the REAL good news" (as you put it) there's no going back for the overwhelming majority of us. Once you begin to question, it's amazing how so much in the religious world just collapses. Believers quake at that thought (deep down do they know it's just a house of cards?); those of us who have made the switch feel liberated (but basically stay the same people-we don't go off behaving "hog-wild" like believers would expect). Welcome to the light.

Starspun

You should stop your wife from making you her 'mission'. She is setting herself up for failure and disappointment.

and

What happens when she realizes that her mission is a mission impossible? Will she leave then?

She seems very uncomfortable with your new outlook. The letter writing to the preacher is a good clue. It seems that she is reaching out for comfort. Unfortunately, she isn't coming to you for this.

I think you know your wife better than anyone here at II. How do you think you should proceed? What is your priority in this situation? Your kids well being (beliefs) or, your marriage? Do you think she would leave you over this? Can you live a lie to make her feel secure and safe? Do you want to?

Tough questions my man and i wish you luck. Keep us updated and welcome to II.

Vicar Philip

Man, this religious stuff sucks. My wife and I just had a VERY heated conversation that almost resulted in me leaving the house. She now says that if I don't believe, I am breaking up this family. I said to her, am I telling you that if you don't change your beliefs to mine that I want a divorce?? Of course the answer is no. Then she insists that I am the instigator in this simply because I have decided to not believe in the whole goddamned fairy tale. I am the one breaking up the family.

I really pissed her off when I brought up her mother. Her mother was a very bad parent, abusive, neglectful, the like. My wife refuses to forgive her, and I certainly don't blame her. However, I made the, shall we say, MISTAKE of telling her that based on her religion, SHE was going to burn along with me because she won't forgive her! That set her off. She ordered me away from her, so I came downstairs. She came down the stairs a short time later and told me I was to leave.

Well, we really got into it then. No violence, thankfully, but lots of nasty things were said. At one point she compared herself to my passed away Catholic grandmother, who stayed in a marriage with my adulterous and unremorseful grandfather for her whole life. This really pissed me off. I said, so now I'm like HIM?? Do I FUCK anything with two legs? Have I fathered other women's children while we're married?

She knew she'd crossed the line, and came to me. The fight kind of ended, and we went upstairs to "make up." Afterwards, she again told me our house, our kids, our cars, all came from "God." I told her she could think how she wanted, just don't expect me to.

I must admit, I'm scared. She is dead serious, and I truly think she will divorce me unless I "come back to God!!!" She said that she didn't want me around to tell the kids, "poison them" with my non-belief in God and Jesus. I asked her, if we got a divorce, do you not think I'd tell them when it was my weekend? She didn't like that, and made some kind of threat. I told her she'd have to run that past her lawyer.

Damn this is hard. Sometimes I wish I'd kept my big mouth shut. Only for a moment, because I would rather be honest about this than go to church and mouth the words, nodding my head in feigned assent. So how far do I take this? I obviously don't want to lose my wife and kids. I honestly didn't think she'd react quite this vehemently.

WTF??? Not that I needed any further proof of the lack of a god, but would "He" let this happen, all in "His" name?? Yeah right. What a pitiful, pathetic fucking joke.



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sakrilege

In cased you missed it, here's another thread started by brettc that is a similar situation...

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=55&t=000647" target="_blank">Fundy wife, brainwashed kids</a>


I don't know what to say for advice but I hope there is someway you can work this out.

Take care, Susan

Harumi

After reading this thread and several others, it's always the wife that's the believer, the father or husband that's having the problem. I wonder why that is?

Sure gives religious women a bad name.

Are there any problems wives have with religious husbands?

The Other Michael

Hey x-xian,

I was reading the new posts leading up to your latest and was just thinking "boy, if he hears "you'd come back to Jesus if you loved me" he's in big trouble.

Sounds to me like you are in big trouble.

Of course the house, the car and everything else good came from God - that's what he's for, to take credit for all the good work done by everyone else. You, it seems, are destined to take the credit for all the bad things (even if you didn't do them).

The more I see of these threads, the more it looks like theist/non-theist relationships start off with about 49 strikes against them. That isn't to say they can't be made to work, but the odds seem kind of slim.

Of course, since YOU are the one who is denying God in his heart (since you can't honestly believe He doesn't exist, you must be denying Him willfully), it is all your fault.

Does it seem like it would be worth pointing out to your wife that you are exactly the same person you were the day before you realized that you couldn't believe in God? You still don't kick the dog, or sell drugs to the kids on the corner, or cackle like a maniac over all the suffering in the world etc etc etc.

You aren't suddenly running around with all those libertine men and scaaaaarlet women, drinking up the savings account, or anything else different other than not believing in a god.

You might also point out that a conversion under duress wouldn't be valid, and that you've been honest with her instead of lying to her about this important decision.

Would she prefer you lie to her?

Is there any chance that your wife might be more amenable to reasonable discussion if you got her in a different surroundings - away from home, away from church, etc? Someplace that might be a more neutral territory?

Religion is just a bad, bad thing, and I wish it would hurry up and go away.

Best of luck,
Michael

ChrisJGQ

To echo what other posters have said, I just want to state that you can't allow her to bully you in regards to what you tell the children. You've already talked to one, which I'm glad you did.

That having been said, I still think you should avoid the topic for now, and let your wife's nerves calm. She isn't being rational, so there's no real point discussing it for the time being. Try not to take offence to what she's saying. She's scared and confused. Hopefully, time should help fix this. If not, a marriage counselor might be a good idea. theist/atheist relationships can work, no matter how difficult they can be at times.

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