Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mark9950 · 05-25-2003, 02:46 PM

Is the myth of castor(mortal) and pollux(immortal) a parallel to the God the father(immortal) and jesus (mortal)?

Who was Orpheus Bacchus and Orphism and when was this religion practiced.

Did this religion have any influence on the culture of the jews.

Who was persophone?

Toto · 05-25-2003, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Is the myth of castor(mortal) and pollux(immortal) a parallel to the God the father(immortal) and jesus (mortal)?

Nope, but Castor and Pollux show up in the gospel of Mark as James and John, the fishermen who are the twin sons of Zebedee, who are renamed "Boanerges, the Sons of Thunder [Zeus]". Castor and Pollux were the sons of Leda and Tyndareus, but also know as the Dioscuri, "Zeus' boys":

Quote:

XXXIII. To the Dioscuri

Bright-eyed Muses, tell of the Tyndaridae, the Sons of Zeus, glorious children of neat-ankled Leda, Castor the tamer of horses, and blameless Polydeuces. When Leda had lain with the dark-clouded Son of Cronos, she bare them beneath the peak of the great hill Taygetus, -- children who are delivers of men on earth and of swift-going ships when stormy gales rage over the ruthless sea. Then the shipmen call upon the sons of great Zeus with vows of white lambs, going to the forepart of the prow; but the strong wind and the waves of the sea lay the ship under water, until suddenly these two are seen darting through the air on tawny wings. Forthwith they allay the blasts of the cruel winds and still the waves upon the surface of the white sea: fair signs are they and deliverance from toil. And when the shipmen see them they are glad and have rest from their pain and labour.

From The Homeric Hymns

Enough symbolism there for you?

Toto · 05-25-2003, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mark9950
. . . Who was Orpheus Bacchus and Orphism and when was this religion practiced.

Did this religion have any influence on the culture of the jews.

Who was persophone?

You can read about Orpheus, Bacchus, and Persephone on any mythological site. There are obvious parallels to Christian beliefs, and you can decide for yourself if those have any explanatory power.

The Jewish connection is more obscure:

Encyclopedia Britannica 1911

Quote:

SABAZIUS, a Phrygian or Thracian deity, frequently identified with Dionysus, sometimes (but less frequently) with Zeus. His worship was closely connected with that of the great mother Cybele and of Attis. His chief attribute as a chthonian god was a snake, the symbol of the yearly renovation of the life of nature. Demosthenes (De corona, p. 313) mentions various ceremonies practised during the celebration of the mysteries of this deity. One of the most important was the passing of a golden snake under the clothes of the initiated across their bosom and its withdrawal from below�an old rite of adoption. From Val. Max. i. 3, 2 it has been concluded that Sabazius was identified in ancient times with the Jewish Sabaoth (Zebaoth). Plutarch (Symp. iv. 6) maintains that the Jews worshipped Dionysus, and that the day of Sabbath was a festival of Sabazius. Whether he was the same as Sozon, a marine deity of southern Asia Minor, is doubtful. Some explain the name as the �beer god,� from an Illyrian word sabaya, while others suggest a connexion with .... (god of "health") or ..... His image and name are often found on "votive hands," a kind of tatisman adorned with emblems, the nature of which is obscure. His ritual and mysteries (Sacra Savadia) gained a firm footing in Rome during the 2nd century A.D., although as early as 139 B.C. the first Jews who settled in the capital were expelled by virtue of a law which proscribed the propagation of the cult of Jupiter Sabazius.

This site claims the Jews who worshipped Sabaoth were heretical.

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Through a complex history of the incorporation of Sabazius into the Roman culture, the sign of Sabazius became the sign we now identify as the blessing of the Catholic Pope: a raised hand with the thumb, middle and index fingers upright, and the remaining fingers folded down towards the palm

mark9950 · 05-25-2003, 05:13 PM

On the zodiac.How did the zodiac come about?

Toto · 05-25-2003, 05:26 PM

Gemini

Quote:

It was the Romans who referred to the stars as Castor and Pollux; the names by which they are known today. In myth they are the twin Sons of Leda, born in an egg after Jupiter seduced her disguised as a swan. The seduction took place on the night of her wedding to the King of Sparta. Thus the twins were spawned by different fathers: Castor by a king, and Pollux by a god. Both were great warriors but Castor was renown for his skill in horsemanship (his name has been translated as 'horseman') and his talent for the arts, music and sciences, whilst Pollux was blessed with immortality, powerful strength and ferocity.

Their place in the heavens was secured when Castor was killed and Pollux, grief stricken, declared that he wanted to join his brother in Hades. Zeus took pity on the brothers and allowed both to experience the worlds of Hades and Olympus, provided they shared their immortality by living alternating lives between heaven and earth.

The quest for divine immortality is a main thread of all the ancient myths associated with this constellation. . . .

Many ships sought the beneficial patronage of Gemini by using Castor and Pollux as their figurehead. A passage in the Bible tells how Saint Paul travelled on such a vessel, [3] . . . .

[3]Acts, 28:11. "And after three months we departed in a ship off Alexandria, which had wintered in the isle, whose sign was Castor and Pollux."

mark9950 · 05-25-2003, 09:04 PM

This God character allowed mythology to somehow appear in the bible to ruin the credibility.

05-25-2003, 02:46 PM	#1
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	Castor and Pollux Is the myth of castor(mortal) and pollux(immortal) a parallel to the God the father(immortal) and jesus (mortal)? Who was Orpheus Bacchus and Orphism and when was this religion practiced. Did this religion have any influence on the culture of the jews. Who was persophone?

05-25-2003, 05:13 PM	#4
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	These two are On the zodiac.How did the zodiac come about?

05-25-2003, 09:04 PM	#6
mark9950 Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: midwest usa Posts: 1,203	It looks like This God character allowed mythology to somehow appear in the bible to ruin the credibility.

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