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Old 04-24-2003, 06:04 PM   #21
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Originally posted by orac
Let's assume for the sake of argument that human beings really are intrinsically evil, or at least imperfect sinners. Let's also assume that God is perfect.

Any reasonable definition of these terms implies that God is superior to Humans.

With me so far?

Now, given these assumptions, why would God do something (kill innocent children to punish someone who did commit a crime) when only the most pathologically insane humans would consider this decent?

More to the point, I do not accept your standard of relative morality where killing babies is an acceptable way for God to punish wrongdoers but an unacceptable way for humans to punish wrongdoers.

You believe in a God with a clear "do as I say, not as I do" policy, and you continually insist that this is moral and beyond criticism. Don't you understand that some people don't consider that to be a good thing? You need to persuade us that morals are relative, before expecting us to accept that God's morality is different to what is moral for humans.
Ok, lets you use your analogy. Do you know the future of those children that God killed? Do you know how they lived and what they would have grown up to do? They lived in the most evil, violent times in Biblical/human history. God said ALL people were pure evil. Children living in a society like that would have become pure evil. They would have grown up, become murderers, rapists, evil beings and rejected God. They would have ignored His warnings of Judgement and ended up in Hell for their evil and sins. God saved them from a future of pure evil while judging the adults ( after sufficient warning i might add - over 100 years). Maybe the older children followed their parents example and ignored God too. Maybe all but the youngest children were evil because of how bad society was. God can see the whole picture you can't. Thats the difference between God killing and us. For humans to kill, is murder. God kills in righteous judgement, just as the government would do, only more perfect and universal.

Humans murder for selfish reasons. They don't like someone, or want sexual gratification from the kill, or are Hedonistic, missionary controlling people who like to watch others suffer. God doesn't, but society was pure evil, so God judged them. God doesn't enjoy killing people. He doesn't get gratification from the kill. Thats illogical to even think an omnipotent, Holy being would enjoy killing people. He did it as a judge. God is judge, jury and executioner and its always done righteously, whether you agree with it or not.
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:08 PM   #22
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Originally posted by Magus55
Ok, lets you use your analogy. Do you know the future of those children that God killed? Do you know how they lived and what they would have grown up to do? They lived in the most evil, violent times in Biblical/human history. God said ALL people were pure evil. Children living in a society like that would have become pure evil. They would have grown up, become murderers, rapists, evil beings and rejected God. They would have ignored His warnings of Judgement and ended up in Hell for their evil and sins. God saved them from a future of pure evil while judging the adults ( after sufficient warning i might add - over 100 years). Maybe the older children followed their parents example and ignored God too.
Ever hear of prevention being better than cure? Why didn't your 'perfect' god prevent all this? Why did he have to 'cure' it by killing everyone? He didn't seem to care enough to save the adults and those past the 'age of accountability.'
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:11 PM   #23
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BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA...etc. ad infinitum. According to your beloved bible, your god does these things TO GET WORSHIP. Sounds mighty selfish to me.
Are you 4? Grow the heck up or i'm gonna put you on ignore. God doesn't do it to get worshipped, He does it for righteous judgement and to follow through with His ultimate plan. Yes, He wants us to worship only Him, but its not to boost His ego. He doesn't need us to worship Him to be satisfied. Its commanded for our own sake, so we stay in line with His will. You are human. Who are you to question The Almighty Creator of the Universes actions?




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Your god invented sin by decreeing what was and what was not sin. Hence, he is responsible. QED.
Nope, God didn't invent sin itself. Sin is just that which violates God's nature. Yes he has commandments that we are to obey, and disobeying God is a sin, but God didn't just say, hmm i think i'll pick pride, envy, lust, gluttony, sloth, wrath, and greed as sins. They are sins because they go against God's virtues of humility, love, self control, faith, zeal, kindness, and generosity. God encompasses those virtues. That which goes against them ( and many others) are termed sins.
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:12 PM   #24
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Ever hear of prevention being better than cure? Why didn't your 'perfect' god prevent all this? Why did he have to 'cure' it by killing everyone? He didn't seem to care enough to save the adults and those past the 'age of accountability.'
What should He have to done to prevent it, other than do anything that violates free will?

And He did care. He cared enough to give them over a 100 year warning of the coming judgement. But only Noah and his family listened to the warning. The evil humans were fools and too prideful to listen to God. Not His fault.
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:16 PM   #25
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Are you 4? Grow the heck up or i'm gonna put you on ignore.
I'm 19, actually, but age has little to do with maturity or valid arguments. And I don't think you can register on these boards if you're under 13, unless you lie on the registration form.

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God doesn't do it to get worshipped, He does it for righteous judgement and to follow through with His ultimate plan. You are human. Who are you to question The Almighty Creator of the Universes actions?
Who are you to claim to know what his plan is? How do you know it is good? If it is different from our definition of 'good', then it really is meaningless.




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Nope, God didn't invent sin itself. Sin is just that which violates God's nature. Yes he has commandments that we are to obey, and disobeying God is a sin, but God didn't just say, hmm i think i'll pick pride, envy, lust, gluttony, sloth, wrath, and greed as sins. They are sins because they go against God's virtues of love, self control, faith, zeal, kindness, and generosity. God encompasses those virtues. That which goes against them ( and many others) are termed sins.
No, according to your bible, your god DECREED what would be sins. Your god's nature is thus - kill anything that is too much trouble to deal with in any other way, or for the most harmless 'sins' like adultery. Looks like 'sin' involves being too much like your god.
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:18 PM   #26
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What should He have to done to prevent it, other than do anything that violates free will?
And drowning them in a mass flooding doesn't violate free will?

Quote:
And He did care. He cared enough to give them over a 100 year warning of the coming judgement. But only Noah and his family listened to the warning. The evil humans were fools and too prideful to listen to God. Not His fault.
The evil god was a fool and too prideful to listen to the humans. Not their fault.
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:20 PM   #27
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Adultery is a harmless sin? Tell that to the woman who catches her husband in bed with another woman and shoots both of them in the head....

Tell that to Laci Peterson who's husband was having an affair, and Laci and her unborn baby died because of the stupid husband.

You have issues if you think adultery is harmless.
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:22 PM   #28
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Originally posted by Magus55
Adultery is a harmless sin? Tell that to the woman who catches her husband in bed with another woman and shoots both of them in the head....
The harm comes from the woman who does the shooting, not the adultery. Sure it's unfaithful, but beyond that...

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Tell that to Laci Peterson who's husband was having an affair, and Laci and her unborn baby died because of the stupid husband.
Couldn't Laci have taken precautions for her baby?

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You have issues if you think adultery is harmless.
You have issues if you believe adultery warrants the death penalty.
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:23 PM   #29
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And drowning them in a mass flooding doesn't violate free will? :rolleyes



The evil god was a fool and too prideful to listen to the humans. Not their fault.
You apparently don't understand what free will is. It doesn't mean you wish it so, and poof it happens. God gave them over 100 years to use their free will to listen to him and avoid the judgement, then He let loose a disaster. They had the ability to choose Him or their sins, they chose their sins.

Debating with you is really pointless. I try to explain things and you just give sarcastic arguments right back. Why do you bother? You obviously don't give a crap about God if He exists, and you certaintly aren't worth my time since all you do is ridicule and make rediculous opposing arguments. So why do you even reply?
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Old 04-24-2003, 06:25 PM   #30
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The harm comes from the woman who does the shooting, not the adultery. Sure it's unfaithful, but beyond that...



Couldn't Laci have taken precautions for her baby?



You have issues if you believe adultery warrants the death penalty.
Woman would have never gotten so emotionially distraught if it weren't for her cheating husband.

Take precautions to do what? It was unborn. I'm sure you think she should have aborted it so only her husband got to kill her

In ancient times, it did warrent the death penalty, It was a severe crime. Society has gotten sick and its common now.

I feel sorry for whoever you marry, since you don't think adultery is bad, you will probably cheat on her.
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