Apikorus

The Chicago Cubs.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Calzaer,


Sure Calzaer...when you can prove your great grand father existed, I'll believe it. Otherwise you and the Greeks have the exact same amount of evidence for your beliefs.



Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Wyz_sub10

Well, it would be highly unusual, but I can exume the body of my grandfather, perform DNA tests, perhaps match dental records, just for starters.

Also, I could show you photographs, compare the first-hand testimony of witnesses, look through employment records, ship manifests, government documentation.

Are you suggesting we can do the same for god? Can we do any of the above for god?

What about Jesus? How many of the above apply? Can you think of things not mentioned that could help prove his existence?

We have second-, third-, fourth-hand testimony, and a few casual mentions in other sources.

What else?

Calzaer

So where's God's birth certificate?

Albert Cipriani

Dear D,
You assert: I'm amazed. Ergo:

• you're into self-love

• you yourself and not a jury of 12 perpetrated the miscarriage of justice known as the OJ Simpson trial

• you don't use a calculator to do math

• music doesn't enter your ears through sound waves

• wisdom spontaneously generates in you like a yeast infection

• you use telepathy instead of language

• beauty is only perceived in your mind's eye

Well at least you got consciousness right. You are correct to assert that your consciousness doesn't exist outside of you. While one out of 8 is not a passing score, it's enough to hold at bay the dogs of despair.

Are you not aware that whatever exists, exists in our minds? What's this "He ONLY exists in the minds of believers"? Do you not know that when you touch a hot stove the pain you experience as your burnt fingertip occurs ONLY within your mind? And every pleasure you've ever experienced in any and every orifice of and surface upon and organ within your body also takes place ONLY in your mind?

OK. It's time for another hyper-critter alert. If you stipulate that God exists ONLY in the mind of believers, will you not also stipulate that pleasure and pain exists ONLY in the mind of believers and unbelievers? If you wish to retain some semblance of self-consistency it seems that you must.

Assuming that you will so stipulate, this meeting of our minds can be happily adjourned. You can go back to cultivating your internal growth of wisdom and doing math in your head and us believers can go back to having our relationship with God in our head.

Point is, all that we experience we experience ONLY in our head. Knowing this, does not impugn the existence of that which we experience (unless you're a hyper-critter). If you are willing to believe that the hot stove exists even tho the pain it seems to cause occurs only in your head, you must likewise be willing to believe God Almighty exists even tho the comfort believers derive from Him exists ONLY in our heads. -- Sincerely, Albert the Traditional Catholic

Wyz_sub10

But the actual damage occurs very much in the finger tip, regardless if the mind experiences pain or not.

You need not have any sensation response whatsoever to see the connection between the stove and your finger.

IOW - One can demonstrate the effects of the hot stove irrespective of what goes on "in your mind".

Albert Cipriani

Dear Wyz,
So “to see” is not a sensation that exists ONLY in the mind?

So you can “demonstrate” effects “irrespective of what goes on in your mind.” Pray tell, in what organ of yours does this demonstration occur? Amazed, Albert the Traditional Catholic

T. E. Lords

it occurs in the BURNING OF THE FINGER. A person with absolutly no sense of pain could still burn their finger.

Free Thinkr

What is this supposed to mean? That because love exists only in the minds of humans, those humans must somehow be into self-love? Either I missed something, or this is a non-sequitur.

You can't actually believe this is what he meant by stating justice is only in our minds. You are arguing semantics, and poorly at that. Whether OJ's actions were wrong or not and if so, what should be done is what justice is all about. There is no tangible justice that will punish OJ, human minds must subjectively decide what justice is.

I'm forced to ask: do you believe that math is somehow more than a concept?

Sound enters our ears. Whether or not it is music is decided by each individual. Don't believe me? Play some Snoop Doggy Dogg for you're grandmother.

Webster's defines wisdom as

accumulated philosophic or scientific learning


So no, wisdom doesn't spontateously generate "like a yeast infection." That said, wisdom doesn't exist outside of man. Wisdom is not a tangible object. Wisdom is a concept, and a subjective one at that.

First you confuse sound with music, and now with language as well. You sure are on a roll. Humans are capable of making sounds. When these sounds are arranged in a specific manner, and given arbitrary meaning, we call this language. Language exists only in our minds, it is a concept. The sound, however, is an actual tangible thing.

You're finally getting it.

T. E. Lords

I would have to say the arguments put forth by Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas and Albert in this thread.