Psycho Economist

I'll spell it out. I would not. Creating me... whether biologically as my parents did, or spiritually which you assert God did... does not give someone unconditional authority over me. I am not my parents' slave just because they brought me into the world.

Either way, this does not have any bearing on whether or not I'd accept empirical evidence for the existance of the supernatural... though i'll grant that it has bearing on whether or not I'd be willing to think for myself (and would need evidence as a prerequirement for belief) in the first place.

Yes, I am a skeptic. Yes, I am not authoritarian. Yes, two are dependent on one another: if I was an authoritarian, I would accept the claims of authorities without critical inquiry, so I would not be a skeptic. But I'm an atheist because I am a skeptic, but if you don't believe that we can't go on a tour of my head and gather evidence.

K

SOMMS:

If you are claiming the God is just a tool, like mathematics and logic, invented by humans to help explain the world we observe, I'll agree to that. I would argue that it is a fairly worthless tool since it's predictive properties are zero. Math and logic do infinitely better for modelling this world - and that has been empirically verified.

Synaesthesia

SOMMS,
The circularity you are proposing seems to be in a difficult bind given that many of us did not give up the idea of God willingly. Moreover, a belief in an evil God is not a contradiction. In other words, negative feelings about god does not necessarily prompt disbelief.

Now, granted, it is well known that we are more likely to believe in what we find appealing. Belief in God/immortality is no exception. Many atheists convert to christianity or other religions primarily because they don't like the idea that they're going to die.

The core point is that attitude can influence our beliefs but does not uniquely determine them. Therefore, simply because we find some tennants of a religion repulsive does not mean our epistemological position on it relies upon that.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Psycho,
So...completely regardless of whether God actually existed or not...you would not have a relationship with Him.

Consider the following:
Perhaps it is this attitude that is causing the 'lack of evidence' you currently see.


Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

MadMordigan

Regardless of whether or not Saddam Hussein existed or not, I wouldn't have a relationship with him. This doesn't preclude the experience of emperical evidence of his existance.

Do you believe the world disappears when you close your eyes as well?

Philosoft

Brilliant, you've got Psycho Economist nailed. So what about the millions of other atheists who would have a relationship with God?

Psycho Economist

Not what I said. Not what you asked. I said I would not accept your God (1) as having authority over me (2) because he created me. I don't demonstrate unquestioning obedience to my parents on the sole grounds that they gave birth to me, but that doesn't mean that I don't have a realtionship with them.

What attitude? That I won't take someone's word for it? That I say "show me"? One of the characteristics of evidence is that it's there to be examined whether you believe in it or not.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Philosoft,
Well ok if you wish...


I suppose I could ask the exact same question to you.


Suppose God did exist and he created everything. The cosmos, the universe, time and space, matter and energy. He tuned it for life and created mankind, created your family, created you.


Would you acknowledge God's sovereign power and authority over everything?


Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Psycho,

This attitude...



Again...this may be why you see no evidence for God. It wouldn't matter if you did.

Satan Oscillate My Metallic Sonatas

Bible Humper

Why is my post being ignored, SOMMS?