Biff the unclean

As far as I have ever been able to tell----------It is just a stupid thing that JW's HAVE to do and Mormons HAVE to do. ===door to door evangelism. And I don't think any of them like it very much. Just something they HAVE TO DO.--to fulfill their obligations.
Which misses the point that I am not involved in these so called "obligations". I am only the intended victim of them.

Hey----I like to make people's lives easier, not harder.
Hey--I don't much care if their lives are harder. In the school yard event I mentioned after repeated harassings I beat up one of a group of four bullies. Rather than gang up on me the other three stood back and watched. After this not only did they leave me alone they left all the other kids alone too because I promised to defend them. By hurting one person I kept twenty some odd from being hurt by him.
If I make one JW's job so hard that she gives up on it I will have spared hundreds of people she would have targeted.

There are so many people in the world who like to make life harder for others --I choose not to be one of those. Maybe you do.
I like to think of it as a sense of self worth. I don't let other people do whatever they want to me.

I have never been nasty to Girl Scouts selling their over-priced cookies either----it is something they HAVE TO DO. I buy a box of cookies. Maybe 2 boxes.
My daughter, who is now in her 30's, was informed that she was not fit to be a Girl Scout because she is an Atheist. I hope you run out of milk with those cookies.

I have never been nasty to any little kid supporting his school coming door to door either selling some stupid thing or other.
Funny I've never had one of those kids be anything but polite. Never has one said "Good morning sir, I'm selling raffles for my school and I'd like to tell you that everything you believe is wrong and you should change your religion to the crack-pot one I believe in."

You got to learn a little humanity Biff--

--Again--what goes around comes around.
Why is what is going around coming around only when it gets to me? How come what these religious yahoos have going isn't supposed to be coming around back from me?
If they are doing onto others what they would have others do onto them then what's the bitch about me doing onto them what they came to me to do? (Say that three times fast. I need a glass of water)

Biff the unclean

It just means that you can be "nice" even when turning something down. Again--sugar works better than vinegar in almost every case.
Again it doesn't do crap with bullies but encourage them. These roaming bands of religious bullies ringing your bell, trying to convert you have shown nothing but contempt for you as a human being. Their extreme rudeness forfiets any claim they might otherwise have for polite treatment.

You would make a much better case for atheism or secular humanism ---underlining the human part of humanism. ----------if you are just "nice" about the whole thing.
Secular humanism is about respecting people it is not about putting up with any bull shite that is shoveled on you.
And I am not making a case for Atheism, I am sitting in my home minding my own business when I am beset.

You will make a much bigger impression on a propogandized and indoctrinated JW or a Mormon ---doing his yearly thing -------by saying (with a very big smile on your face) that you believe what you believe (or do not believe what you do not believe) and that is it--end of story
I make an even bigger impression by telling them that they are superstitious arseholes and laughing at them. Imagine the impression I could make with a shotgun loaded with rock salt.

And not try to evangelize anyone at all with atheism, agnosticism or whatever belief system or non belief system you may have.
It's Atheism…and what the hell are you talking about? I don't bother them in their homes they come to me. I'd be willing to bet the farm that no strange Atheist has ever rung your door bell and tried to get you to stop believing.
But you know the old saying "what goes around comes around." If you go and start bothering a stranger in their own home and attack their beliefs there is no way that you can control their actions. If you show such little respect to strangers as that…such hostility as that…then you have no right to expect any respect in return.

Godless Dave

Rational BAC, they do not "have" to do it. They have every opportunity to say "Hey, that's rude, I'm not going to do it" and quit their church.

I regard door-to-door evangelists exactly the same as I regard door-to-door salespeople. I put up a "No Soliciting" sign earlier this year and so far neither kind of salesperson has called. (Doesn't hurt that you have to climb a flight of steps to get to my front door).

beth

Sorry, but this thread title reminds me of a song and now the lyrics are goind round and round in my mind. "Knock, knock, knock,I hear Jesus knocking, Tug, tug, tug, tuging on my heart strings..."

Spaz

In a perfect world RBAC, in a perfect world...


I have to agree with Biff here, they're the ones coming to him telling him that he's wrong. So they get told that they are wrong and their belief is stupid, what goes around comes around indeed. These people aren't obligated to do a damn thing, if they don't want to do it they don't have to, they can leave their church, whatever. Salesmen are polite because they're selfish, not because they're nice. They sell you something, they get paid, the JWs sell you their belief, they get their payment (in whatever form) as well.

Joel

I just wanted to clarify something about the JW's. This may have changed in recent years but I know it was the case about 9 years ago. (last time I was around any of them)

They are not required to preach door-to-door. It is a commandment from God but it is not forced on you. When you are going door-to-door you keep track of the hours spent on the activity. With a certain amount of hours every month (90 I think it was) you can be what they call a 'pioneer' in the ministry. This doesn't really confer any privileges or anything, just a slightly higher social position. (other members look up to them, etc.)
You have to put in at least 10 hours a month to be considered an 'active publisher'.

If you do not participate in door-to-door preaching then you are considered 'inactive'. This doesn't prevent you from attending services or social functions. You may occasionally hear some crap from the elders about it, but they never seemed to push it very hard when I was forced to attend.

Basically what I'm saying here is even the JW's have a choice in whether to participate in door-to-door preaching. The organization encourages members to participate but it isn't a requirement. If someone is going door-to-door it is their own choice. They have either bowed to peer pressure from other members of the group or they truly believe they are doing Jehovah's work by irritating the living shit out of everyone else by being rude and insensitive.

The only ones I feel any sympathy for are the children that are forced to go along. They often don't have a choice in the matter and I know from personal experience that it is a singularly unpleasant experience.

Otherwise, I say the adults get what they deserve when they tangle with someone who is willing to take the time to verbally shred their beliefs.

Joel

rem

I was raised a JW and continued as one until I was 23 years old. Yes you are practically forced to 'go out in service' as it's called. It is a requirement as a baptized JW... and even for unbaptized 'publishers'. You get a lot of grief about it if you don't go. It may be different for people who were not raised in it, but most JW's were raised in the organization (at least in developed countries).

Almost all JW's hate going from door to door, but conversations like the one described in the OP do make things interesting - and even make their day! It gets depressing getting the door slammed on you and your crappy magazine offers rejected over and over again. Intelligent conversation (as one sided as it may be) is a refreshing change.

I think that listening to atheists at the door helped me see the inconsistencies in my former religion. Gradually I allowed these planted seeds to grow and I finally did the research that allowed me to get out. I applaud calm, rational discussion with JW's at the door.

rem

Rational BAC

rem---

I agree with you on that one. The only real problem I have with the original poster was his self righteous belligerency about the whole thing.

Will state again that sugar goes down much better than vinegar.

I have occasionally invited JW's and Mormons into my home (when I had some spare time to kill ) offered them drinks and eats and we had a very intellectual and very pleasant discussion about the whole thing. I think it did make their day and mine.

And maybe they took to heart what I had to say. Or maybe not. But at least I may have placed just a bit of doubt there.

I do not question the OP's reasons ---I just question his means.

Biff the unclean

So Rational do you even realize what a double standard you have going here?
So long as they call themselves Christians you think these people have license to do any damn thing that they please to anyone that they please. Yet when the OP and I are doing back to them exactly what they are doing to us (except not in the JW's & Mormons own homes) you term it "self righteous belligerency."

And you warn that "what goes around comes around." As thought if you weren't nice to them they wouldn't be nice to you. Don't you understand that they are already in the midst of not being nice to you? They are in the process of being belligerently self-righteous. That when you "make their day" you are encouraging their anti-social disrespectful behavior.

DamagedGoods

I view the door-to-door evangelizers in the same light as telemarketers: they probably don't enjoy what they're doing, but for whatever reason, they are doing it. If they aren't rude up front, then neither will I be. If I am not interested I will try to say "No, thanks" nicely one time. If they persist after one refusal, or don't give me an opportunity to refuse within about 15 seconds, then I have no qualms with doing something I might normally consider rude, such as hanging up the phone or closing the door.

Maybe this was brought up already, and I missed it when my eyes glazed over on the second page of this thread, but here goes: get a "No Soliciting" sign or two. I plan on getting one, since religious magazine marketers appear to have discovered our neighborhood recently. That way I can just get their employer/pastor/whatever's name and address and figure out interesting things to do with them. If the BBB or Chamber of Commerce aren't interested, them I'm sure I can find some good porn sellers or bulk mailers that might like their address.