Denshuu

I wish I could do the same with my relatives, but that would just cause too much disarray in the family. They're much too dependent on their belief that they will forever be inseperable, even after death, and so the defense mechanism that is their faith is more than likely to cause them to see me (as one who doesn't share their beliefs) as a threat. I've already been ridiculed for hinting at the possibility that I might be bisexual years ago, and then forced to hear several rantings on behalf of my parents on how much "God hates fags." I can only sit back and wonder how they would react upon learning that I don't share their religious beliefs, let alone their interpretations of it.

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Denshuu ]</p>

Jayhawker Soule

What, precisely, did you "give up"?

Theli

Swish!!!

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Theli

Yes. The hopefull look at the christian afterlife is also a false one.
It states that practicly everyone will go to heaven. Completely neglecting it's opposite - hell.

I also feel abit guilty when arguing against a theist's belief (if they are positive/hopefull). It feels like I'm stealing something.

Theli

I think this is one of the largest apeals religion has. Simplicity.
A is right/good, B is wrong/evil.
Why is A right but B wrong?
A is god's will. And god is the being that created and designed the whole world, including us. God is the being that knows how everything works. God is the being that is never wrong. B is against god's will, and therefore wrong/evil.
A equals reward, B equals punishment.

Black and white, but very easy and comprehensible. And thus, very apealing.

The question about what the conciousness really is, has a good example of a simplified answer(soul).
While the atheistic explaination is far from simple.

Perchance

Theistic explanations may make people comfortable, but I think there's always a price (often, a price within the theistic belief system itself). If someone is a Christian and believes in the Devil, then he or she tends to fear Hell, or at least sin. The promise of an afterlife is balanced by the idea that one has to work to make sure that God doesn't just cast one into the fire. (Even people who are confident they are going to Heaven would rarely, I think, do things that are "dangerous" by their religion's standards, such as sin without repenting).

Outside the theistic system, there is also a price. Theists are closing their eyes to a part of reality, at least as atheists see it. They are stifling logical thinking. They fight against science, they insist that religion is necessary, and they perpetuate sheer silliness.

Worst of all (I think) they prey on those, such as children or people going through a difficult time in their lives, like the loss of a loved one, who are particularly susceptible to their mind-virus. Children of religious households aren't usually given that much of a choice about what to believe; I know that my aunt, who is a strong Methodist, took her children to church from the time they were two. Now they're convinced God exists, though the one time I spoke with one of my cousins about it he couldn't give me any reason he felt that way.

I can only think of two "prices" that might come from being a non-believer: the idea that death is it, and the (possible) social antipathy towards one from friends, family, or the general public if one's non-believing stance is revealed. The latter doesn't even apply to atheists all over the world, only in certain countries or parts of countries such as the Bible Belt. And I count the first as actually a blessing. There is an end. There isn't just remorseless continuation forever, with no escape from guilt, hatred, or all the things that I think would wear humans down eventually.

-Perchance.

mattmattmattmattv

Wow, the EXACT same thing happened with a guy that I knew, Jeff, who died about a month ago. He would be in hell, but they just ignored that.

mattmattmattmattv

I don't see what resolution has to do with it! It's hardly as though we choose to be atheists, we simply do not see any reason to believe in God. I, for one, cannot make myself believe that what seems to me to be clearly untrue is, in fact, absolute truth. It's just what I see, there is not choice.

mattmattmattmattv

I don't see what resolution has to do with it! It's hardly as though we choose to be atheists, we simply do not see any reason to believe in God. I, for one, cannot make myself believe that what seems to me to be clearly untrue is, in fact, absolute truth. It's just what I see, there is no choice.

Doubting Didymus

This is an insightful statement from matt. Theists who try to convert atheists often appeal to the right or wrong 'choice', but in reality most atheists are atheists because it is a neccesary conclusion drawn from the facts. No 'choice' is involved at all.

As a matter of fact, I think if there WAS a choice, and we could choose to believe anything we liked, many atheists would not be atheists. I might choose to believe in an afterlife paradise where me and all my freinds go, and all the people I don't like go to hell (surprisingly, many people do believe this). However, the fact that I would know that I (or some other guy) had just made it up would prevent me from believing that.