Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Grad Student Humanist · 11-08-2002, 01:59 PM

This whole idea of waiting until marriage to have sex is a completely religious notion. There's just no getting away from that. I firmly believe that teens shouldn't be having sex. I would support any program which stresses waiting until at least graduating from high school and reaching the age of 18 before having sex.

However, the abstinence pushers go much farther than that. They push no sex until marriage which is ridiculous. It's nobody else's business if two mature and consenting adults decide to have sex without getting married. If a 30 year old doctor and a 25 year old accountant meet in a bar and decide to have sex there would be nothing wrong or immoral about it at all, unless you're religious and take your moral cues from the Bible (or another religious text) in which case it's your problem. But "because Jesus (or St Paul, or Mohammed, or Buddha) said it's wrong" sure isn't a good reason for me to abstain from sex before marriage.

With all of the recent debates about abstinence education I wish just once someone would point out that the idea of waiting until after marriage to have sex is strictly a religious idea and based on Judeo-Christian moral values which are not binding on the rest of us.

red robot · 11-08-2002, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grad Student Humanist:
...unless you're religious and take your moral cues from the Bible (or another religious text) in which case it's your problem. But "because Jesus (or St Paul, or Mohammed, or Buddha) said it's wrong" sure isn't a good reason for me to abstain from sex before marriage...

OT, but IIRC most schools of Buddhism do not consider sex before marriage wrong. Any sexual activity which intentionally causes harm is considered wrong whether within a marriage or without.

Okay, carry on.

RR

11-08-2002, 02:35 PM

I had abstinence-only sex ed in a public school. Church had a death grip on the community. Memorably we thought up slogans like: "Live for the Lord, not the back seat of a Ford." Catchy huh? (No that was not mine.)

Also, my health teacher was the biggest moron since Dan Quayle. But he thought he was the shit, Mr. Head Basketball Coach. I could actually feel myself getting dumber by listening to him. My brain cells would commit suicide in his wake.

What a total waste of time.

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Jagged Little Pill ]</p>

-RRH- · 11-08-2002, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Limac333:
1. I am a guy
2. I don't go in for that sort of thing
3. If a girl was interested in me I would go for it. Her doing it to me obviously

I think taking an active role will teach you a lot more. You could provide cunnilingus to any curious parties.

(Not that you have to turn down any offers. It can still be enjoyable, if not as educational.)

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: RRH ]

Limac333 · 11-09-2002, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jagged Little Pill:

Also, my health teacher was the biggest moron since Dan Quayle. But he thought he was the shit, Mr. Head Basketball Coach. I could actually feel myself getting dumber by listening to him. My brain cells would commit suicide in his wake.

What a total waste of time.

[ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Jagged Little Pill

I totally agree with you my teacher gives all blondes a bad name.

By the way I told my health teacher about A.C. Green and she said that he was merried... true but the sexual activity took place 1 year before he got merried.
Now slowly the tides change as more classmates think for themselves.....

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Limac333 ]

DutchAtheist · 11-09-2002, 08:40 AM

what idiots, "Just say no" prevents teenage pregnancy about as effectively as "have a nice day" cures chronic depression.

On a related note, this is something that came up a few days ago at my school. Let me point out that the teacher and about half of my class are muslim.
So we had a fascinating dicussion about 'ethical objections to contaception'. The teacher argued that sex without the intent to reproduce is evil The obvious response to this; that, logically then, infertile couples should not be allowed to have sex, was met with stunned silence.

I am already considered to be an outrageous infidel by most of this class(my biology class), as I took great pleasure in mocking the teacher for her lack of belief in evolution earlier this year. Most of the people here are reasonably intelligent, but by virtue of life being a bitch I ended up in a bio class with half of the school's fundie muslims.

Isn't life fun?

Toto · 11-13-2002, 09:11 PM

I have read several reviews of a new book by Janet Irvine, Talk About Sex: The Battle over Sex Education in the United States, which traces the history of abstinence education.

The review in The Nation for Nov 18 is very good, but is not online.

Ab_Normal · 11-14-2002, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:
I have read several reviews of a new book by Janet Irvine, Talk About Sex: The Battle over Sex Education in the United States, which traces the history of abstinence education.

The review in The Nation for Nov 18 is very good, but is not online.

I haven't read this one, but I have read "Harmful to Minors", by Judith Levine, which covers the same area. I highly recommend it. It really made me examine my attitudes toward sex education and children's sexuality.

(If you go to Toto's link, it should appear on the list of related books.)

Toto · 11-16-2002, 12:26 PM

Just as a footnote:

Miss America and abstinence

Quote:

Miss America Erika Harold is insisting on promoting abstinence during her yearlong reign, to the chagrin of the pageant. Conservatives have rallied to her cause and accused the pageant of hypocrisy, giving the Miss America organization the kind of clobbering it usually gets from the left.

. . .

In Miss America contestant circles, abstinence--as a platform issue--is a well-known turn-off. Contestants have been discouraged from espousing it for fear of alienating pageant judges.

Sex has always been a touchy subject for the pageant. Pageant officials were mortified in 1984 when sexually explicit photos of reigning Miss America Vanessa Williams appeared in Penthouse; she was forced to relinquish her crown. Last summer, Miss North Carolina resigned under pressure after her ex-boyfriend claimed to have topless photos of her. "The pageant is very concerned about appearing relevant and they're aware there's a media bias on this issue of abstinence," said chastity advocate Mary Louise Kurey, 28, a former Miss Wisconsin who was discouraged from talking about the issue at the 1999 Miss America Pageant.

Rios said the Miss America organization's stand "betrays a hidden agenda of political correctness and religious bigotry among pageant officials. They are attacking Erika Harold's values, which goes completely against what everyone thought the Miss America pageant stood for."

Bridget Maher, family policy analyst for the Family Research Council, said the pageant was undermining its own efforts to promote women in seeking to muzzle Harold's pro-abstinence views. "By encouraging young people to abstain from sex until marriage, Miss America is teaching them not to view women as sex objects but to value them as people," Maher said.

lpetrich · 11-16-2002, 02:16 PM

If you liked Judith Levine's book, you might like this site:

http://www.allaboutsex.org

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

11-08-2002, 01:59 PM	#11
Grad Student Humanist Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melrose, MA Posts: 961	This whole idea of waiting until marriage to have sex is a completely religious notion. There's just no getting away from that. I firmly believe that teens shouldn't be having sex. I would support any program which stresses waiting until at least graduating from high school and reaching the age of 18 before having sex. However, the abstinence pushers go much farther than that. They push no sex until marriage which is ridiculous. It's nobody else's business if two mature and consenting adults decide to have sex without getting married. If a 30 year old doctor and a 25 year old accountant meet in a bar and decide to have sex there would be nothing wrong or immoral about it at all, unless you're religious and take your moral cues from the Bible (or another religious text) in which case it's your problem. But "because Jesus (or St Paul, or Mohammed, or Buddha) said it's wrong" sure isn't a good reason for me to abstain from sex before marriage. With all of the recent debates about abstinence education I wish just once someone would point out that the idea of waiting until after marriage to have sex is strictly a religious idea and based on Judeo-Christian moral values which are not binding on the rest of us.

11-08-2002, 02:35 PM	#13
Jagged Guest Posts: n/a	I had abstinence-only sex ed in a public school. Church had a death grip on the community. Memorably we thought up slogans like: "Live for the Lord, not the back seat of a Ford." Catchy huh? (No that was not mine.) Also, my health teacher was the biggest moron since Dan Quayle. But he thought he was the shit, Mr. Head Basketball Coach. I could actually feel myself getting dumber by listening to him. My brain cells would commit suicide in his wake. What a total waste of time. [ November 08, 2002: Message edited by: Jagged Little Pill ]</p>

11-09-2002, 08:40 AM	#16
DutchAtheist Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dubai,UAE Posts: 26	what idiots, "Just say no" prevents teenage pregnancy about as effectively as "have a nice day" cures chronic depression. On a related note, this is something that came up a few days ago at my school. Let me point out that the teacher and about half of my class are muslim. So we had a fascinating dicussion about 'ethical objections to contaception'. The teacher argued that sex without the intent to reproduce is evil The obvious response to this; that, logically then, infertile couples should not be allowed to have sex, was met with stunned silence. I am already considered to be an outrageous infidel by most of this class(my biology class), as I took great pleasure in mocking the teacher for her lack of belief in evolution earlier this year. Most of the people here are reasonably intelligent, but by virtue of life being a bitch I ended up in a bio class with half of the school's fundie muslims. Isn't life fun?

11-13-2002, 09:11 PM	#17
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	I have read several reviews of a new book by Janet Irvine, Talk About Sex: The Battle over Sex Education in the United States, which traces the history of abstinence education. The review in The Nation for Nov 18 is very good, but is not online.

11-16-2002, 02:16 PM	#20
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	If you liked Judith Levine's book, you might like this site: http://www.allaboutsex.org

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.