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Old 03-23-2003, 02:57 PM   #1
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Default 9/11 and God

Ok, after reading on these forums a bit about evil and love and what-not, I have a question:

This pertains to 9/11 and the God of Christianity. I have read how some say that God allows evil so that it can bring people together and become more religious, so that more people are saved, etc. but:

1. What happened to all the people who were not "Christians" that died? Did God condemn them to hell by allowing them to be killed so that non-believers would convert? Did god figure, "Well, A few hundred or a few thousand may go to hell, but I'm converting 3 million people to christianity, so it balances out."?

2.Or did god give them amnesty and let them into heaven?

3. If #1, why would god be willing to send his own creation into hell? I thought he loved us all, and that doesn't seem very loving. At least if they were alive they'd go to hell of their own actions, not because god allowed them to be killed. I don't even understand why God would damn them to hell even then, if he is all-loving, but that's another topic.

I have no idea which forum this would go in, sorry. And if I'm missing something here, correct me! I'm only 16 and still have alot to learn so don't be harsh Just looking for answers
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Old 03-23-2003, 03:41 PM   #2
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Your questions really hit the nail on the head with why so many people here are disgusted with xianity and religion in general. I think that according to xian doctrine, god would send everyone to hell who doesn't believe in his existance. Sorry definition of love in my view. "You don't love me, you can go to hell"-- God.

Would you date someone who said something like that to you?

Religion is full of contradictions-- in order to believe one must suspend reason. It amazes me how people find comfort in the belief of a xian god who at any minute may wipe you off the face of the earth or won't prevent such an event from happening.
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Old 03-24-2003, 05:30 PM   #3
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if there is a God, i think he falls into the hannibal lector classification of what God would be: the supreme predator, a divine cannibal that enjoys the suffering of his people.

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Old 03-24-2003, 06:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: 9/11 and God

Quote:
Originally posted by Majody
Ok, after reading on these forums a bit about evil and love and what-not, I have a question:

This pertains to 9/11 and the God of Christianity. I have read how some say that God allows evil so that it can bring people together and become more religious, so that more people are saved, etc. but:

1. What happened to all the people who were not "Christians" that died? Did God condemn them to hell by allowing them to be killed so that non-believers would convert? Did god figure, "Well, A few hundred or a few thousand may go to hell, but I'm converting 3 million people to christianity, so it balances out."?

2.Or did god give them amnesty and let them into heaven?

3. If #1, why would god be willing to send his own creation into hell? I thought he loved us all, and that doesn't seem very loving. At least if they were alive they'd go to hell of their own actions, not because god allowed them to be killed. I don't even understand why God would damn them to hell even then, if he is all-loving, but that's another topic.

I have no idea which forum this would go in, sorry. And if I'm missing something here, correct me! I'm only 16 and still have alot to learn so don't be harsh Just looking for answers
Well first of all, you need to realize 9/11 was an act made by humans. Humans used their God given free will and committed evil acts with it, and in order to maintain Free will, God had to let it happen.
Everyone has 1 life in order to accept God's gift, which is why its emphasized that you shouldn't wait around and act like, i'll worry about it later because you never know how long you have. The people in the building had the whole time they were alive to find Jesus. Whether they go to Hell or not is God's judgement. He will look at each person individually and base it on whether they tried to have a relationship with him or had no religious knowledge whatsoever. If they had full knowledge of God and Jesus, and knew they were sinners and were Hell bound without Jesus as their saviour, and still rejected Him, then yes most likely they are in Hell because they made that choice. But none of us knows who is going to Hell and who isn't, only God does so its up to Christians to spread the gospel and let the person and God deal with the rest.

Now, to your point about God letting them die to bring about the greater good, isn't so. Humans used their own choices to commit the crime, God can just bring good things out of an evil situation humans caused. So the terrorists killed those people on their own, against God, but God used that evil act to bring unity to the world and other good things. We should never commit evil, but when evil is committed, God can work with it to do good.

God is NOT willing to send his own creation to Hell. He doesn't want anyone to go there. He wanted people to stay out of Hell so much that he came to earth among us sinners and died by our hands to pay the penalty and save us from it. Jesus preached more about how to avoid Hell than anything else in the Bible because of how much he wants you to avoid it. But every human sins against God and the wages of sin are death because it violates God's nature and sovereignty. He must execute righteous judgement to those who don't accept his gift to avoid Hell. God wants you to avoid Hell so much, that in the end times when he executes his wrath and judgement on the sinning, unbelieving world, He will STILL give those who are living one more chance to accept his gift, even after seeing his power and wrath.

God wants NO ONE to go to Hell, but if people continue to live in sin and reject Him, that is their punishment and fate.

(waits for the sarcasm and insults from happyboy and friends)
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Re: 9/11 and God

Quote:
Originally posted by Magus55
Well first of all, you need to realize 9/11 was an act made by humans. Humans used their God given free will and committed evil acts with it, and in order to maintain Free will, God had to let it happen.
But the free will of the victims were not preserved, because many of them had no choice with regard to being incinerated. And by doing NOTHING to prevent the tragedy, your god is guilty by omission.

One of the things that bothers me the most about 9/11 are the fundies who say that the people who jumped out the windows go to hell. Given that hell exists and god is fair and just (which he isn't, I'm assuming this for the sake of the argument), what ELSE were they supposed to do? Stay and burn slowly?!?!

Quote:
God wants NO ONE to go to Hell, but if people continue to live in sin and reject Him, that is their punishment and fate.
If he really didn't want people to go to hell, would he have created hell in the first place?

Quote:
(waits for the sarcasm and insults from happyboy and friends)
Is it just me, or is Magus becoming like Radorth with these pity-enticing statements?
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Re: 9/11 and God

Quote:
Originally posted by Magus55
The people in the building had the whole time they were alive to find Jesus. Whether they go to Hell or not is God's judgement. He will look at each person individually and base it on whether they tried to have a relationship with him or had no religious knowledge whatsoever. If they had full knowledge of God and Jesus, and knew they were sinners and were Hell bound without Jesus as their saviour, and still rejected Him, then yes most likely they are in Hell because they made that choice.
What about those in the towers who were of other religions and had other relationships with God that don't involve Jesus? Are they in Hell now according to you and your narrow one-track mind?

Let me guess your answer.
They are in Hell because YOUR religion is the only true religion and all other religions are tricks of Satan.
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Re: 9/11 and God

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Originally posted by Magus55
The people in the building had the whole time they were alive to find Jesus.
But some people live longer than others, and have a greater opportunity to be 'saved'. How is this fair or just?
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
But the free will of the victims were not preserved, because many of them had no choice with regard to being incinerated. And by doing NOTHING to prevent the tragedy, your god is guilty by omission.

One of the things that bothers me the most about 9/11 are the fundies who say that the people who jumped out the windows go to hell. Given that hell exists and god is fair and just (which he isn't, I'm assuming this for the sake of the argument), what ELSE were they supposed to do? Stay and burn slowly?!?!
Winston, i really don't think you understand the concept of Free will. Having one human, use their free will to commit evil against another doesn't remove the victims free will. Just because they can't escape the building doesn't mean they don't have free will. Free will has nothing to do with you being able to do absolutely anything you want against man made situations. Free will does not just give you the ability to teleport out of the building because you choose to do so. That isn't free will.

Quote:
If he really didn't want people to go to hell, would he have created hell in the first place?
He created Hell for Satan and the fallen angels, not Humans. Humans took it upon themselves to make Hell one of the 2 destinations after death.


Quote:
Is it just me, or is Magus becoming like Radorth with these pity-enticing statements?
Am i not warranted in that statement? Every single thing i post gets insulted and ridiculed by people on this board just because i'm trying my best to defend what i believe in.
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magus55

He created Hell for Satan and the fallen angels, not Humans. Humans took it upon themselves to make Hell one of the 2 destinations after death.
No, god decided who would go there by determining the criteria for heaven or hell.

Quote:
Am i not warranted in that statement? Every single thing i post gets insulted and ridiculed by people on this board just because i'm trying my best to defend what i believe in.
You wouldn't be ridiculed if you could defend your arguments convincingly. If you do have a high GPA, you should have no problem doing this.
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Old 03-24-2003, 06:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
You wouldn't be ridiculed if you could defend your arguments convincingly. If you do have a high GPA, you should have no problem doing this.
My arguments will never be convincing, because atheists don't like them. I'm telling you the truth and how it works, you don't like it and there isn't much more i can do for you.
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