Freethought & Rationalism Archive

mac_philo · 05-09-2002, 01:48 PM

Folks, it just doesn't get any richer.

ZoneChaos, a Christianforums 'moderator,' has officially stated that non-Christians will not be allowed to ask Christians for proof of anything. This is in the Apologetics forum. Apologetics being the branch of theology concerned with defense and proof of Christianity.

This is at the Roundtable forum at <a href="http://www.christianforums.com." target="_blank">www.christianforums.com.</a>

Can someone cut and paste his message? I'm using lynx (whoa, stone age!), and if you know what that program is, you understand why I won't do it myself.

enrious · 05-09-2002, 01:58 PM

<a href="http://www.christianforums.com./forums/showthread.php?s=69df4dbb511aab514a201bee3d43a235& threadid=13091" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.com./forums/showthread.php?s=69df4dbb511aab514a201bee3d43a235& threadid=13091</a>

#1 Attention to all regarding the "Proof of God", Proof of (fill in the blank, etc...)

For those of you who are here to seek proof in the existance of God, or for those of you who are here to question Christians to see if they can prove the existance of God, I sadly must inform you that we won't be able to.. at least, not the way you want us to.

Science cannot be applied to faith. No one can scientifically prove that God is real, that the Christian God is the one true God, or the Jesus was the Son of God.

If you fall into the catagory of a person wanting this type of proof, your efforts are futile.

Now, what we can do, as Christians is tell you about the God we know to be true.

If you want to hear about Him, let us know. If you want to know the mechanics of how we know He exists.. again, I am sorry, but that can't be shown eaither.

As a Christian, it is our place to tell you about Jesus Christ, and tell you about God's plan for salvation.

It is not our place to prove God to you, nor prove He is real. At best, this can only be done by how we live our lives as Christians, and as a witness for Christ.

I was charged by an athieast the other day, to "go out and save the world" since I was so sure that my God is real.

The thing is, I can't save anything. I can no more save myself, let alone the World.

Only the God I know can do that.

Further more, I cannot prove or show you how I know God. My relationship (a two way communion) that I have with God, is a personal one. My communication with God is just that, "My" communication with God.

What binds Christians together in this, is the Holy Spirit.

For a Christian, we can know other Christians are or are not talking of God, for God, and by God, by the holy Spirit.. but alas, you must be apart of the "in crowd" in order have this gift.

There is only one way to know God exists: Desire to want to. There is no way to prove it to you, other than taslling you how to prove it to yourself.

No one can do the work for you.

It seems, as of late, there are many many posts (a couple of which I have started) that center around this "Prove to me God exists", or something similar.

The problem is, they are futile.

If you want to know, and to debate about what a Christian knows, then fine, but on this board, everyone will assume that the Christian knows what he knows because this is a Christian board. On this board, especially in this forum, of things pertaining to Christian, Christians are the authority on the subject. As a who;le, the Christians are the teachers and others are the students. you want to learn, then welcome. You wan tto teach? No thank you. We are taught by eachother, and ultimately by God, not by a non-Christian. (concerning spiritual and moral subjects)

I will be monitoring these posts.

Soon, I will be closing the posts I mention above.

After that, any post by a non-Christian wanting a Christian to prove himself to a non-Christian will be strictly kept in line, and most probable closed by myself.

This is an opinion of me, and though I think it reflects the commission of this Administration, this will be my action alone as a moderator of this forum.

I decided to do this to facilitate positive discussion. From what I see, the only discussionI see is negative.

As I said, this is my personal opinion as to how I will moderate this forum. If the administration does not agree, I will resign.

Robert

Last edited by ZoneChaos on Today at 10:35 PM

__________________
"...and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth and even myth is long forgotten, when the Age that gave it birth comes again."

mac_philo · 05-09-2002, 01:59 PM

Thanks. Yup, it looks even funnier over here.

Gar · 05-09-2002, 02:45 PM

Wow, this is rich.

"If you fall into the catagory of a person wanting this type of proof, your efforts are futile. "

Believe me, we know. It isn't there.

"There is only one way to know God exists: Desire to want to."

I have "the desire to want to" bang my head against the wall when I hear that sentence coming from a 'moderator'.

"Science cannot be applied to faith. No one can scientifically prove that God is real, that the Christian God is the one true God, or the Jesus was the Son of God. "

Hey! Now we're getting somewhere! Now that we've established that there is no scientific value in Christianity whatsoever, stop trying to teach it in our schools.

Grumpy · 05-09-2002, 02:50 PM

In fairness, I imagine Christian forums can become rather tedious with the constant hooting of skeptics for "proof, proof!" The message strikes me as pre-emptive housekeeping, kind of like the Pascal's Wager warning in the II Existence of God forum.

A better question than demanding proof would be asking how the proof for Christianity is superior to the proof for other religions. Since "faith" is the proof for them all, in the absence of evidence there is no way to weigh one against the other.

mac_philo · 05-09-2002, 02:53 PM

I wasn't aware there was a pascal's wager warning. I mean, really, on this topic there's no reason to differentiate between our existence of gods forum and their apologetics forum, and they embrace (or used to embrace) discussions of pascal's wager.

The Other Michael · 05-09-2002, 02:56 PM

Quote:

For a Christian, we can know other Christians are or are not talking of God, for God, and by God, by the holy Spirit.. but alas, you must be apart of the "in crowd" in order have this gift.

This appears to be how a True Christian (TM) knows another TC from one of the multitude of TC imposters.

Is it the secret handshake, or the special code phrase?

cheers,
Michael

Mageth · 05-09-2002, 03:00 PM

Is it the secret handshake, or the special code phrase?

Well, the holy spirit supposedly impregnated Mary, right? So maybe it's the "holy f**k."

TollHouse · 05-09-2002, 03:19 PM

All in all I think this is a good thing. The Christians there can't accuse us of purposely ignoring their God if they admit the following:

Quote:

No one can scientifically prove that God is real, that the Christian God is the one true God, or the Jesus was the Son of God.
.
.
.
Further more, I cannot prove or show you how I know God. My relationship (a two way communion) that I have with God, is a personal one. My communication with God is just that, "My" communication with God.

Also, we'll no longer be bombarded with threads of the pathetic 'proofs' for God that we've all seen countless times.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how this pans out...

mac_philo · 05-09-2002, 03:27 PM

The real issue is that this sets up explicitly seperate rules for nonchristians, and gives special privileges to christians. 'They know what they know.'

The main sysadmin is on hiatus, but when I return I think he'll speak to that fact, which is utterly unacceptable. He's generally a fair guy.

The idea that Christians are right on all things, and that any post asking them for proof of anything (this is NOT restricted to god) is absurd.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

05-09-2002, 01:48 PM	#1
mac_philo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Tax-Exempt Donor, SoP Loyalist Posts: 2,191	Cognitive Dissonance at Christian Forums Folks, it just doesn't get any richer. ZoneChaos, a Christianforums 'moderator,' has officially stated that non-Christians will not be allowed to ask Christians for proof of anything. This is in the Apologetics forum. Apologetics being the branch of theology concerned with defense and proof of Christianity. This is at the Roundtable forum at <a href="http://www.christianforums.com." target="_blank">www.christianforums.com.</a> Can someone cut and paste his message? I'm using lynx (whoa, stone age!), and if you know what that program is, you understand why I won't do it myself.

05-09-2002, 01:58 PM	#2
enrious Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Home Posts: 895	<a href="http://www.christianforums.com./forums/showthread.php?s=69df4dbb511aab514a201bee3d43a235& threadid=13091" target="_blank">http://www.christianforums.com./forums/showthread.php?s=69df4dbb511aab514a201bee3d43a235& threadid=13091</a> #1 Attention to all regarding the "Proof of God", Proof of (fill in the blank, etc...) For those of you who are here to seek proof in the existance of God, or for those of you who are here to question Christians to see if they can prove the existance of God, I sadly must inform you that we won't be able to.. at least, not the way you want us to. Science cannot be applied to faith. No one can scientifically prove that God is real, that the Christian God is the one true God, or the Jesus was the Son of God. If you fall into the catagory of a person wanting this type of proof, your efforts are futile. Now, what we can do, as Christians is tell you about the God we know to be true. If you want to hear about Him, let us know. If you want to know the mechanics of how we know He exists.. again, I am sorry, but that can't be shown eaither. As a Christian, it is our place to tell you about Jesus Christ, and tell you about God's plan for salvation. It is not our place to prove God to you, nor prove He is real. At best, this can only be done by how we live our lives as Christians, and as a witness for Christ. I was charged by an athieast the other day, to "go out and save the world" since I was so sure that my God is real. The thing is, I can't save anything. I can no more save myself, let alone the World. Only the God I know can do that. Further more, I cannot prove or show you how I know God. My relationship (a two way communion) that I have with God, is a personal one. My communication with God is just that, "My" communication with God. What binds Christians together in this, is the Holy Spirit. For a Christian, we can know other Christians are or are not talking of God, for God, and by God, by the holy Spirit.. but alas, you must be apart of the "in crowd" in order have this gift. There is only one way to know God exists: Desire to want to. There is no way to prove it to you, other than taslling you how to prove it to yourself. No one can do the work for you. It seems, as of late, there are many many posts (a couple of which I have started) that center around this "Prove to me God exists", or something similar. The problem is, they are futile. If you want to know, and to debate about what a Christian knows, then fine, but on this board, everyone will assume that the Christian knows what he knows because this is a Christian board. On this board, especially in this forum, of things pertaining to Christian, Christians are the authority on the subject. As a who;le, the Christians are the teachers and others are the students. you want to learn, then welcome. You wan tto teach? No thank you. We are taught by eachother, and ultimately by God, not by a non-Christian. (concerning spiritual and moral subjects) I will be monitoring these posts. Soon, I will be closing the posts I mention above. After that, any post by a non-Christian wanting a Christian to prove himself to a non-Christian will be strictly kept in line, and most probable closed by myself. This is an opinion of me, and though I think it reflects the commission of this Administration, this will be my action alone as a moderator of this forum. I decided to do this to facilitate positive discussion. From what I see, the only discussionI see is negative. As I said, this is my personal opinion as to how I will moderate this forum. If the administration does not agree, I will resign. Robert Last edited by ZoneChaos on Today at 10:35 PM __________________ "...and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth and even myth is long forgotten, when the Age that gave it birth comes again."

05-09-2002, 01:59 PM	#3
mac_philo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Tax-Exempt Donor, SoP Loyalist Posts: 2,191	Thanks. Yup, it looks even funnier over here.

05-09-2002, 02:45 PM	#4
Gar Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Boston, Mass Posts: 347	Wow, this is rich. "If you fall into the catagory of a person wanting this type of proof, your efforts are futile. " Believe me, we know. It isn't there. "There is only one way to know God exists: Desire to want to." I have "the desire to want to" bang my head against the wall when I hear that sentence coming from a 'moderator'. "Science cannot be applied to faith. No one can scientifically prove that God is real, that the Christian God is the one true God, or the Jesus was the Son of God. " Hey! Now we're getting somewhere! Now that we've established that there is no scientific value in Christianity whatsoever, stop trying to teach it in our schools.

05-09-2002, 02:50 PM	#5
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	In fairness, I imagine Christian forums can become rather tedious with the constant hooting of skeptics for "proof, proof!" The message strikes me as pre-emptive housekeeping, kind of like the Pascal's Wager warning in the II Existence of God forum. A better question than demanding proof would be asking how the proof for Christianity is superior to the proof for other religions. Since "faith" is the proof for them all, in the absence of evidence there is no way to weigh one against the other.

05-09-2002, 02:53 PM	#6
mac_philo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Tax-Exempt Donor, SoP Loyalist Posts: 2,191	I wasn't aware there was a pascal's wager warning. I mean, really, on this topic there's no reason to differentiate between our existence of gods forum and their apologetics forum, and they embrace (or used to embrace) discussions of pascal's wager.

05-09-2002, 03:00 PM	#8
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Is it the secret handshake, or the special code phrase? Well, the holy spirit supposedly impregnated Mary, right? So maybe it's the "holy f**k."

05-09-2002, 03:27 PM	#10
mac_philo Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Tax-Exempt Donor, SoP Loyalist Posts: 2,191	The real issue is that this sets up explicitly seperate rules for nonchristians, and gives special privileges to christians. 'They know what they know.' The main sysadmin is on hiatus, but when I return I think he'll speak to that fact, which is utterly unacceptable. He's generally a fair guy. The idea that Christians are right on all things, and that any post asking them for proof of anything (this is NOT restricted to god) is absurd.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.