Voltaire Is My Hero

*I've begun reading some material both by and about the late psychologist, Carl G. Jung. I realize this topic might not fit into the "Philosophy" section per se, but this is as close a "forum fit" as I could find.

I've read _Introducing Jung_ by Totem/Icon books, have _Man and His Symbols_ on my shelf [have read a few chapters of it], and have read most of the autobiographical _Memories, Dreams, Reflections_. I've also had a very close familiarity with Jungian thought relative to work in a psychiatric hospital I was an employee of years ago.

I'd like to know the opinions of Jung from others here. His mystical bent aside, I think he was "onto something" regarding the workings of the psyche and its correlation to religion.

BTW, I am an agnostic freethinker.

--Cindy

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[ September 08, 2002: Message edited by: Voltaire Is My Hero ]</p>

echidna

While not being an authority on Jung, I think much of his dream work carries great merit as an incredibly insightful window into the subconscious.

His name has been unfairly muddied IMO, firstly by countless would-be imitators who cloud his material with an endless stream of confusing second-rate analysis, and secondly by his subsequent wanderings into alchemy and synchronicity. To me it’s akin to discrediting Relativity because Einstein couldn’t grasp Quantum Mechanics.

Tricky to find a forum for, but when in doubt maybe MD or S&S (?), although personally I think Jung is worthy of greater than MD.

Is that an agnostic freethinker as opposed to an Islamic freethinker or a Christian Fundamentalist freethinker ?

JP2

I do not claim to be an authority on Jung either, but I do question the verifiability of his "archetypal" divisions of the psyche.

Does the mind split itself up so neatly into compartments? Can a person be placed so neatly into 4 of 8 categories? How are these categories established?

I think this is where the pschological theories of Jung and Freud break-down: they attempt to map something that is entirely intangible, entirely interdependant and somewhat homogenous (i.e. there is no clear boundary between the "conscious" and the "sub-conscious - the brain is a single entity, not the fusion together of several seperate ones).

Though of course, as I said, I don't know enough about the theories of Jung to necessarily be taken seriously, but I still thought the points were worth raising.

Voltaire Is My Hero

*Is this a trick question? Christian Fundamentalist freethinker? That surely merits the "Contradiction In Terms Award of 2002."

Considering that religious people are not freethinkers [in that -- unlike me -- they are bound to dogmas, doctrines, rely on others to "guide" them or to think for them, etc.], then the answer to your question is YES.

I think for myself.

--Cindy

[ September 09, 2002: Message edited by: Voltaire Is My Hero ]</p>

Vesica

If you are looking into Jung and his work with symbols/religion, I would recommend Joseph Campbell's work as well. His 'Myths to Live By' is quite readble and presents some of his major theories. It is a collection of lectures he delivered during the 70's.

In a nutshell, Campbell is looking at the common themes and symbols across world mythos/religion. He believes these stories/themes persist because they tell us something vital about how to live and be human.

Some nice Campbell quotes:

People say that what we're all seeking is a meaning for life. I don't think that's what we're really seeking. I think that what we're seeking is an experience of being alive, so that our life's experiences on the purely physical plane will have resonances within our own innermost being and reality, so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive...

Myths are public dreams, dreams are private myths.


I don't think there is any such thing as an ordinary mortal. Everybody has his own possibility of rapture in the experience of life. All he has to do is recognize it and then cultivate it and get going with it. I always feel uncomfortable when people speak about ordinary mortals because I've never met an ordinary man, woman, or child.

Hope this helps some...There are also a lot of web sites about Campbell's work...I am not saying he has the idea down completly but he and Jung and others are moving towards ideas I find fascinating and they all seem to be hinting around a truth....

Cretinist

Jung's theories are unscientific, mystical nonsense.

<a href="http://www.skepdic.com/jung.html" target="_blank">http://www.skepdic.com/jung.html</a>

Toto

Some specific theories that Jung held to are nonsense, but then Isaac Newton held some theological beliefs that most of us would reject as nonsense.

Jungian therapy contains some insights and benefits that other forms of therapy lack. You just have to take what you can get out of it. You might find it to be life enriching.

echidna

The term “freethinker” gets thrown around quite a bit here & personally I haven’t yet found someone who doesn’t call themselves a freethinker, context dependent. As such the term has little meaning for me anymore. No offence.

It can be a passive way of saying “you are bounded by false premises which restrict your thinking”, sometimes a bit of a back-hander IMO.

Voltaire Is My Hero

*I see your point. Reminds me of a former acquaintance who pointed out that most everyone believes they can recognize what a "True Believer" [ala Eric Hoffer's book] is, though of course that term can never be applied to themselves and/or whatever group they may be associated with.

--Cindy

mycroft

Just to be a little more of a pest about the off-topic freethinker chain, I thought I'd mention that I've met quite a few religious people who think for themselves (since it seems that is what you implied by freethinker). I'd also like to mention that I believe those who initiated major world religions would also be a freethinker in this sense. I suppose I'm just trying to get at what was already said: