Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MarcoPolo · 06-11-2002, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dangin:
...she looked like she was being wheeled into a high school reunion, not home from seeing her husband killed by a gun 72 hours earlier.

So what should she look like? And for how long?

Corwin · 06-11-2002, 08:41 AM

I suppose it's not all that uncommon a reaction. You have a woman who was almost killed herself apparently, I'm sure she's relieved to be out of the situation. I'd guess that either she's already done her grieving.... or.... *sighs* just hope she isn't alone when reality DOES hit her. Because in cases like that it tends to hit hard, fast, and devastating.

dangin · 06-11-2002, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarcoPolo:


So what should she look like? And for how long?

subdued, even if still happy, and for longer than freaking 3 days. She was in a fire fight that killed her husband for christ's sake.

The Other Michael · 06-11-2002, 09:34 AM

dangin,

they may have already resigned themselves to being killed anyway (which from the reports sounds like it was a possiblity on any given day), so it might not be as big of a shock.

cheers,
Michael

Ruy Lopez · 06-11-2002, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Other Michael:
dangin,

they may have already resigned themselves to being killed anyway (which from the reports sounds like it was a possiblity on any given day), so it might not be as big of a shock.

cheers,
Michael

-------------

Probably the more correct interpretation. The Burnhams were quoted by a reporter that got through months ago that they feared a rescue attempt and would rather negotiate. Burnhams had already discounted the possibility and discussed the matter for a year. Death of Martin was not a surprise to her but her survival is.

[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: demon-sword ]

Thor Q. Mada · 06-11-2002, 07:01 PM

The kidnappers were just bandits whom have always been there.
Kidnapping for ransom is widespread in the Philippines, and any European or Chinese Philippino traveling in the South (and even in Manila) is a target of opportunity.
They just happened to be there because they wanted to spread their faith to the (unfortunately) very gullible locals. And by the way, they were not kidnapped in muslim Mindanao, but in xian Palawan.
However, I must admit that when I see the fundies here at work in Asia sympathy is not what I feel.
They are a blind and disgusting lot. Why don't they stay home. Why spread their vile hatred??
Of-course the same goes for the muslim fundamentalists in the South, supported by our friends and allies the Saudis.

DougI · 06-13-2002, 06:33 AM

I have the misfortune of living in the same town as the missionaries. (Actually they live in Rose Hill which is a couple miles away from my town). The local newspaper hails them as heros and gives them the front page. Bugger that, she isn't a hero. They sat there with guns to their heads because they were kidnapped at random, what else are they supposed to do? They went there to insult the local population. They were targets because they were rich and could provide ransom money. Of course every chance she gets she must make appeals to her myths. I expect a book deal to be coming out of this very shortly as fundies love to take any opportunity to make a profit.

MarcoPolo · 06-13-2002, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dangin:


subdued, even if still happy, and for longer than freaking 3 days. She was in a fire fight that killed her husband for christ's sake.

So, would 4 days be enough to give you the warm fuzzy that she mourned enough? 5 days? 2 weeks?

Give me a break. People deal with tragedy differently. Just because you see her smiling now doesn't mean she isn't crying when she gets home.

She just lost her husband and got shot herself, I'm sure her emotions are all over the place now.

Sure isn't very 'free thinking' of you to assume everyone should deal with tragedy the same as you or by whatever standard you set.

dangin · 06-14-2002, 05:25 AM

Have you seen the footage? She was making that excited, cutsey, clapping her hands gesture with her face all pinched up in a crinkly eyed smile. It was exuberent in pleasure. This was followed by a wide open mouth smile. She was gleeful, and energetically happy. If I was one of her in-laws I'd be pretty pissed, and I would be questioning her committment to my dead family member.

Being prepared for the death of someone is one thing, but then when it happens, (and violently at that, we're not talking about a long battle with cancer here) a little less cheerleading is in order IMO.

But perhaps the placebo of her faith is doing it's job by placing soothing lies in her ears about eternal life and heaven.

Ruy Lopez · 06-14-2002, 06:14 AM

Dangin: I know what you are referring to and a bit more. Was surprised greatly with her first appearance on Phil. TV. She was wearing bright red (in our culture red is a no-no after a death in the family, something she knows because Gracia spent 15 years in Phil.-allthree children were born here). Gracia looked beautiful and abloom with make-up and well-kept hair as well as a happy smile. It was unreal.

Explanation? She could have been advised and convinced by the US embassy and/or the Phil. gov't NOT to blame the muslim population in the south as well as the military-to gain the hearts and mind of the population. Another is an internal conviction of her own that that was the proper way to behave and it worked because the Phil. public, press were all praises conveniently ignoring the taboos she comitted.

I don't like fundies of any faith but Gracia is a decent person. After being rescued, the first thing she asked for was to see the children of the filipina nurse who was killed in the rescue.
the nurse was purposely abducted to care for the Burnhams in the jungle. She had no money.

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06-11-2002, 08:41 AM	#42
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	I suppose it's not all that uncommon a reaction. You have a woman who was almost killed herself apparently, I'm sure she's relieved to be out of the situation. I'd guess that either she's already done her grieving.... or.... sighs just hope she isn't alone when reality DOES hit her. Because in cases like that it tends to hit hard, fast, and devastating.

06-11-2002, 09:34 AM	#44
The Other Michael Honorary Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In the fog of San Francisco Posts: 12,631	dangin, they may have already resigned themselves to being killed anyway (which from the reports sounds like it was a possiblity on any given day), so it might not be as big of a shock. cheers, Michael

06-11-2002, 07:01 PM	#46
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	The kidnappers were just bandits whom have always been there. Kidnapping for ransom is widespread in the Philippines, and any European or Chinese Philippino traveling in the South (and even in Manila) is a target of opportunity. They just happened to be there because they wanted to spread their faith to the (unfortunately) very gullible locals. And by the way, they were not kidnapped in muslim Mindanao, but in xian Palawan. However, I must admit that when I see the fundies here at work in Asia sympathy is not what I feel. They are a blind and disgusting lot. Why don't they stay home. Why spread their vile hatred?? Of-course the same goes for the muslim fundamentalists in the South, supported by our friends and allies the Saudis.

06-13-2002, 06:33 AM	#47
DougI Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Wichita, KS, USA Posts: 932	I have the misfortune of living in the same town as the missionaries. (Actually they live in Rose Hill which is a couple miles away from my town). The local newspaper hails them as heros and gives them the front page. Bugger that, she isn't a hero. They sat there with guns to their heads because they were kidnapped at random, what else are they supposed to do? They went there to insult the local population. They were targets because they were rich and could provide ransom money. Of course every chance she gets she must make appeals to her myths. I expect a book deal to be coming out of this very shortly as fundies love to take any opportunity to make a profit.

06-14-2002, 05:25 AM	#49
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	Have you seen the footage? She was making that excited, cutsey, clapping her hands gesture with her face all pinched up in a crinkly eyed smile. It was exuberent in pleasure. This was followed by a wide open mouth smile. She was gleeful, and energetically happy. If I was one of her in-laws I'd be pretty pissed, and I would be questioning her committment to my dead family member. Being prepared for the death of someone is one thing, but then when it happens, (and violently at that, we're not talking about a long battle with cancer here) a little less cheerleading is in order IMO. But perhaps the placebo of her faith is doing it's job by placing soothing lies in her ears about eternal life and heaven.

06-14-2002, 06:14 AM	#50
Ruy Lopez Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Manila Posts: 5,516	Dangin: I know what you are referring to and a bit more. Was surprised greatly with her first appearance on Phil. TV. She was wearing bright red (in our culture red is a no-no after a death in the family, something she knows because Gracia spent 15 years in Phil.-allthree children were born here). Gracia looked beautiful and abloom with make-up and well-kept hair as well as a happy smile. It was unreal. Explanation? She could have been advised and convinced by the US embassy and/or the Phil. gov't NOT to blame the muslim population in the south as well as the military-to gain the hearts and mind of the population. Another is an internal conviction of her own that that was the proper way to behave and it worked because the Phil. public, press were all praises conveniently ignoring the taboos she comitted. I don't like fundies of any faith but Gracia is a decent person. After being rescued, the first thing she asked for was to see the children of the filipina nurse who was killed in the rescue. the nurse was purposely abducted to care for the Burnhams in the jungle. She had no money.

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