Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Family Man · 02-23-2003, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fenton Mulley
I actually agree with you on this point.
You sound like the type of guy who really follows the bible. When was the last time you stoned someone to death?

Oh, Fenton, that is so Old Testament. Don't you realize Old Man has direct access to Christ himself?

scombrid · 02-23-2003, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth

In the 70's and 80's I used to intercede quite a bit for gang problems. After a couple years of praying, the gangs got together and made peace and the problems nearly stopped.

Good for you. But only nearly stopped? Some tension still existed, yes?

Quote:

But there's a big problem. Nobody thanked God. I doubted it was my prayers. A few weeks after the peacemaking meetings, almost everybody forgot about it.

A new shipment came in and they didn't want to share the profits with each other.

Quote:

Here's how the world works: We get into deep crap before we ever pray. We pray and things get better. Very few people thank God and virtually all of them wonder if it would have happened anyway. When times are good, even the Christians forget God.

God works in ambiguous ways. No telling when he's been active or not. It's anybody's guess.

I know lots of people that pray all the time and things never seem to go right.

Is this why athletes thank god profusely on scoring a touchdown because they're afraid that if they don't send the thankyou note God will take away their gift. What about Kurt Warner? He profusely "gave god the glory" and god seems to have abandonned Warner's football career for the time being.

Quote:

Skeptics of all people should agree with that assessment. It's not like good times make them run to church, is it?

If I were God, I would be frustrated to the point of doing nothing. He's more forgiving than that. And if you were God and nobody believed or prayed or thanked you until they got into trouble and you bailed them out, you would do what?

You paint a very human god. It's kind of petty for an infinite being to need or want the praise of finite creatures.

seanie · 02-23-2003, 01:44 PM

Hey!

You're being unfair.

Stoneing people ain't that easy.

First you gotta get a permit off the council, and then there's the certificate from the Health and Safety Executive. And the insurance premiums to cover a stray stone are prohibitive.

I'm sure Old Man would if he could but it's not so straightforward.

Radorth · 02-23-2003, 01:44 PM

So glad Fenton found a second target for his off-topic pontifications and cynical strawmen.

Quote:

God almost always gets all the thanks and credit whenever anything good happens to us.

Yeah until the adrenaline stops pumping, in most cases.

Quote:

And I don`t agree with you about how nobody is praying. People all over the world are constantly praying for themselves,

People pray more when they are in trouble, and remember to give thanks less when things are going well. In fact they tend to pat themselves on the back. Are you seriously trying to convince me that atheists would thank God if things went well and there were no evil in the world?

Only spiritual people know better. This theme of God doing things and us forgetting about it runs all through the OT, and runs though the history of Christianity. Criminy even the Founders, Lincoln and other Presidents warned of it. It's quite obvious to the wise among us, and I suppose even wise atheists see how people fail to appreciate what they have until they hold a war or something.

You have no idea what you are talking about, and though you won't soon appreciate it, but Jesus loves you anyway.

Rad

scombrid · 02-23-2003, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Judge for yourself, how many of the 77% of the population of the US (who call themselves Christian) actually obey the bible. [/B]

Yeah, back when I was Christian I ate shellfish and crustaceans. I guess I was never a true Christian.

Mad Kally · 02-23-2003, 01:52 PM

Quote:

posted by Amie:
yes people always have the choice to believe in God or not.

Choice? We also have the choice to believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

Amie, can you choose at this moment to believe in Santa? I feel exactly the same about god/gods. I have no choice regarding my belief in fictional creatures.

Family Man · 02-23-2003, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth

People pray more when they are in trouble, and remember to give thanks less when things are going well. In fact they tend to pat themselves on the back. Are you seriously trying to convince me that atheists would thank God if things went well and there were no evil in the world?

If there were evidence that God exists, yeah.

Quote:

Only spiritual people know better.

Radoth always knows better. Must be nice being so much superior to the rest of us.

Quote:

This theme of God doing things and us forgetting about it runs all through the OT, and runs though the history of Christianity.

I guess God just isn't all that convincing, eh?

Quote:

It's quite obvious to the wise among us, and I suppose even wise atheists see how people fail to appreciate what they have until they hold a war or something.

Of course. But if war came around, one of the things we wouldn't lose is God because he doesn't exist.

Quote:

though you won't soon appreciate it, but Jesus loves you anyway.

Of course. Imaginary beings love everyone. Unless they're Satan, then they hate everyone.

Yellum Notnef · 02-23-2003, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Radorth
So glad Fenton found a second target for his off-topic pontifications and cynical strawmen.

What a load of shit. Do you ever get tired of this?

Quote:

People pray more when they are in trouble, and remember to give thanks less when things are going well. In fact they tend to pat themselves on the back. Are you seriously trying to convince me that atheists would thank God if things went well and there were no evil in the world?

People tend to pat themselves on the back instead of thanking god when they get through trouble? Maybe thats how it is on planet Radorthia,but here on Earth people are constantly giving god all the credit.
Surgeons save a car accident victim and the people on the news thank god. People work for 2 days non stop to save minors from a flooding mine and who gets the credit? God.
People escape from a fire where 96 other people get burned alive. Do they credit luck or some stranger who helped them? Nope,once again it`s God or some miracle (aka "god did it").

And people are also constanly thanking god when things go well.
Like when a rappers record goes gold or when a team wins a game or when a president gets elected or when a baby is born or when a school girl passes a test or when theres one last pair of pants your size still on the store shelf when you get there....
Shall I go on?

Quote:

Only spiritual people know better. This theme of God doing things and us forgetting about it runs all through the OT, and runs though the history of Christianity. Criminy even the Founders, Lincoln and other Presidents warned of it. It's quite obvious to the wise among us, and I suppose even wise atheists see how people fail to appreciate what they have until they hold a war or something.

Only "spiritual people" are ignorant and superstitious enough to buy this baloney you`re slicing.
I don`t think "wise atheists" agree with any of the crap you`ve just tried to sell.

Quote:

You have no idea what you are talking about

Thats a hell of a thing for YOU to say to ME.
But I guess in the case of your voodoo mumbo jumbo you`re probably right. Only YOU would know about this shit.

I`m done trying to talk to you.

Yellum Notnef · 02-23-2003, 02:19 PM

Radorth said:

Quote:

In the 70's and 80's I used to intercede quite a bit for gang problems. After a couple years of praying, the gangs got together and made peace and the problems nearly stopped.

Maybe it would have gone better if he had bought the gang members these shirts.
Shirts

Infinity Lover · 02-23-2003, 03:29 PM

Quote:

[i]I prefer to find continuity and comon ground between believers and non-believers, rather than division. I hope both points of view can agree, that the problem's never what some 'god' failed to do, but what we fail to learn[i]

Quote:

Originally posted by Fenton Mulley
It sure must be nice to sit back and say that from the Netherlands. Come live here for a few years and see if you still feel like singing the same hand holding tune about unity.

Hey, Holland being a monarchy, our head of state comes from some alledged bloodline appointed by God, who still has the last word in apointing mayors, the biggest political part is the Christian Democrat Assembly, over here the religiously stemmed homo-hatred comes from muslim fundamentalists, and we still can't get stores open on a sunday (it being the holy sabath and all)...

...if the situation is even worse over there, the need for tolerance and understanding is only bigger, and by no means to be given up on.

By my first statement b.t.w....

Quote:

If everything happens for a reason, there also has to be a reason why there doesn't seem to be a reason for so many things that happen

...I ment that even the most hard-boiled fatalist would still have to come to terms with all the bad shit that happens in this world.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

02-23-2003, 01:44 PM	#43
seanie Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Edinburgh. Scotland Posts: 2,532	Hey! You're being unfair. Stoneing people ain't that easy. First you gotta get a permit off the council, and then there's the certificate from the Health and Safety Executive. And the insurance premiums to cover a stray stone are prohibitive. I'm sure Old Man would if he could but it's not so straightforward.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.