Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 01-29-2002, 05:47 PM

I don't mean fundamentalists, but those who seem to be genuinely nice people who want to live in peace. Some even apologized for what Islamic conqueres did in India.

But why do all of them insist that Koran and Mohammad are perfect? their take is always that all verses have been misinterpreted, when it is obvious that they have not been. When you quote from the Hadiths about particularly ugly incidents from Muhammad's life they simply ignore it or try to explain it by he was forced to do it, cultural context etc.

Can't they see that it is clinging to this notion of perfection and 'no criticism of these two allowed or muslim identity will collapse' mentality that allows terrorism to flourish?

-DM- · 01-29-2002, 05:51 PM

In this they are not unlike Christian and Jewish aplogists who should be [literally] apologizing for their "God" rather than apologists for their "God."

--Don--

Thor Q. Mada · 01-29-2002, 06:00 PM

Well, the real word for fundamentalists is fanatics. Since that is a word with a bad meaning it has been repackaged into fundamentlists.And fanatism of any kind is ugly and leads to violence always.
If my sources are correct not so long ago, somebody in Pakistan was arrested from blasfemy just for suggesting that mohammed was not a moslim before his revelation, and for suggesting that mohamed ancestors were not moslims neither. I mean religion always stiffles intelligence. And by the way, we should have seen the light of what was happening in afganistan after the destruction of the buddha statures. This was a un-heeded warning shot.
And again by the way, friendly pakistan has been supporting al-quada and the taliban, and the kasmiri terrorists since years, and so has saudi arabia.

RyanS2 · 01-29-2002, 10:28 PM

I remember a man being exiled from his native country because he suggested that the Qur'an could only understood as a piece of literature, rather than as a literal account. I believe he is working with Gerd. R Puin now.

mongrel · 01-29-2002, 11:14 PM

Quote:

If my sources are correct not so long ago, somebody in Pakistan was arrested from blasfemy just for suggesting that mohammed was not a moslim before his revelation, and for suggesting that mohamed ancestors were not moslims neither.

IIRC, he was a professor at a university, and some of his students reported what he had said. I don't know anything beyond this, though.

Quote:

And by the way, we should have seen the light of what was happening in afganistan after the destruction of the buddha statures. This was a un-heeded warning shot.

Those two statues at Bamiyan were 1300 years old, and were the biggest(AFAIK) statues of Buddha in the world. Willful destruction of such legacies is, to my mind, a crime against humanity. Too many warning shots seem to go un-heeded.

Toto · 01-30-2002, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thor Q. Mada:
<strong>
If my sources are correct not so long ago, somebody in Pakistan was arrested from blasfemy just for suggesting that mohammed was not a moslim before his revelation, and for suggesting that mohamed ancestors were not moslims neither. </strong>

The man is Dr. Younus Shaikh. He is still in jail, under a death sentence for blasphemy, although it seems clear that the charges were baseless. You can read about the pathetic facts in his case in <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000030" target="_blank">this thread</a>, along with the campaign to free him by the International Humanist Association <a href="http://www.iheu.org" target="_blank">www.iheu.org</a> .

hinduwoman · 02-02-2002, 06:59 PM

The stupidest thing about this blasphemy charge is that Mohommad himself refused to pray for his mother's soul, because she was not a Muslim! Of course she had died giving birth to him, but apparently that was wilfulness on her part!

It shows mohommad himself was stupid and waht kind of family values is that?

01-29-2002, 05:47 PM	#1
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	why don't Muslims accept criticism? I don't mean fundamentalists, but those who seem to be genuinely nice people who want to live in peace. Some even apologized for what Islamic conqueres did in India. But why do all of them insist that Koran and Mohammad are perfect? their take is always that all verses have been misinterpreted, when it is obvious that they have not been. When you quote from the Hadiths about particularly ugly incidents from Muhammad's life they simply ignore it or try to explain it by he was forced to do it, cultural context etc. Can't they see that it is clinging to this notion of perfection and 'no criticism of these two allowed or muslim identity will collapse' mentality that allows terrorism to flourish?

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01-29-2002, 05:51 PM	#2
-DM- Honorary Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: West Coast Posts: 5,714	In this they are not unlike Christian and Jewish aplogists who should be [literally] apologizing for their "God" rather than apologists for their "God." --Don--

01-29-2002, 06:00 PM	#3
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Well, the real word for fundamentalists is fanatics. Since that is a word with a bad meaning it has been repackaged into fundamentlists.And fanatism of any kind is ugly and leads to violence always. If my sources are correct not so long ago, somebody in Pakistan was arrested from blasfemy just for suggesting that mohammed was not a moslim before his revelation, and for suggesting that mohamed ancestors were not moslims neither. I mean religion always stiffles intelligence. And by the way, we should have seen the light of what was happening in afganistan after the destruction of the buddha statures. This was a un-heeded warning shot. And again by the way, friendly pakistan has been supporting al-quada and the taliban, and the kasmiri terrorists since years, and so has saudi arabia.

01-29-2002, 10:28 PM	#4
RyanS2 Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisiana Posts: 216	I remember a man being exiled from his native country because he suggested that the Qur'an could only understood as a piece of literature, rather than as a literal account. I believe he is working with Gerd. R Puin now.

02-02-2002, 06:59 PM	#7
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	The stupidest thing about this blasphemy charge is that Mohommad himself refused to pray for his mother's soul, because she was not a Muslim! Of course she had died giving birth to him, but apparently that was wilfulness on her part! It shows mohommad himself was stupid and waht kind of family values is that?

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