Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sabine Grant · 05-20-2003, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Opera Nut
There's that escape clause that Sabine mentioned. If any Xtian in history is bad, or kills people, or is mean to them, or tells them they are going to hell, then the other Xtians apologize and say "Oh they were not a TRUE CHRISTIAN", when in fact much of the killing in the name of religion, burning heretics, burning witches, etc. was done by very faithful Xtians. It seems to me that all the Xtians I met want to apologize for all the mean ones I tell them about, that have turned me totally against it. The hundreds of nice ones can't make up for 10 or 20 nasty mean ones I have met.

The other escape clause used on us ex-Xtians is "Oh you didn't pray enough. You weren't a TRUE CHRISTIAN". That is extremely insulting to me!!!
They can't read my mind, they don't know what I went thru!!

:banghead:

bonjour Opera Nut... my intention was certainly not to define what a " true christian is" or as mentionned earlier " good christian". Ronin spoke of religions in general. My reply was focused on religions in general. I am looking for a solution in my post.... not rehashing the problem. That was a further analysis of of the dilemna he presented. With a touch of reflecting on how the humanist ideology can encourage a balance.

Please try to not interpret my thoughts based on what you have experienced.

Muffinstuffer · 05-20-2003, 06:53 AM

On a loosely related topic.....

First post and 10 pages so far.

I'll have to come up with something equally controversial for my encore.

Rational BAC · 05-20-2003, 07:11 AM

Good for you Muffin

They call that beginner's luck here on this forum. At least that is what they told me.

Muffinstuffer · 05-20-2003, 08:02 AM

Gee, you mean they don't call it 'fundie's luck?'

Rhea · 05-20-2003, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabine Grant
Bonjour Rhea... I think where I would appreciate your feed back the most is what role humanists can play as moderators....between those extremes separating equaly the secular world and the religious world where individuals focus on battling rather than looking for common grounds. That is where the key to harmony may be....

Chuckle. Way to duck the question, Sabine.

Are you or are you not saying that "christians who don't use religion as a tool of power are a small minority"

Do you stand behind what you wrote or not?

(here, I'll quote what you said and you can tell me whether you stand behind it or not. This is becoming quite important to me that I understand whether anything you say can be taken seriously or not. There have been too many repeats of you implying we can't talk about your comments.)

Quote:

Here is another dilemna in those divisions....the few who do not consider that concept as a mean to control others and attempt to use it for personal improvement end up being caught in between. They belong nowhere in the spectrum of religion. They are also rejected by the secular ideologies. They wander about...sort of a voice in the wilderness. Because they are a minority, they are drown in the unsufferable waves of generalization and stereotyping.

Muffinstuffer · 05-20-2003, 08:42 AM

I'm staying out of this one.

Sabine Grant · 05-20-2003, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronin
Bonjour, my lovely~

I'm all for it.

Are you still working under the misconception that god/christ/ghost is real and/or good?

Are you still detaining the absolute certainty that there can be no God whomsoever and one cannot have an image of a God who is not what men claim He is?....

Now that we have explored our extremes... how can we be an example of two people who inspire harmony rather than separation?

Ronin · 05-20-2003, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Are you still detaining the absolute certainty that there can be no God whomsoever and one cannot have an image of a God who is not what men claim He is?....

Not and all.

I merely refute with absolute certainty the silly fables that are promoted as reality, especially christianity and its three headed god ~ as exposed in the assorted conflicting and divisive fairy tales found in our world.

There is no Man in charge of the wondrous universe in plain view...despite the claims of men (and women) that He exists.

Quote:

Now that we have explored our extremes... how can we be an example of two people who inspire harmony rather than separation?

By realizing that the world is our country and doing good our only religion...it really is as simple as that, no deity required.

Sabine Grant · 05-20-2003, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhea
Chuckle. Way to duck the question, Sabine.

Are you or are you not saying that "christians who don't use religion as a tool of power are a small minority"

Do you stand behind what you wrote or not?

(here, I'll quote what you said and you can tell me whether you stand behind it or not. This is becoming quite important to me that I understand whether anything you say can be taken seriously or not. There have been too many repeats of you implying we can't talk about your comments.)

Since you have already established that my intent in focusing on what I believe is the most important in my comments is to " duck the question", what type of answers would satisfy you ?

You want to rehash issues..... I want to find solutions.

Yes I do believe that in ANY religion believers who do not have the need to use the concept of God as a tool to control others or what I explained in my reply to Ronin, are indeed a minority. I also believe that those minorities seek the same harmony humanists want to see applied to mankind.
So that is what I am interested in working on....
As far as your personal perception to determine if what I say may be taken seriously, I certainly hope you make those kinds of evaluations of any person based on more substance than what they verbaly express.
The only way you can make such an evaluation about anyone is if you can compare how they live, behave, treat others etc...with the words they " stand behind". Cyber evaluations are IMO very deceptive.

Sabine Grant · 05-20-2003, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ronin
Not and all.

By realizing that the world is our country and doing good our only religion...it really is as simple as that, no deity required.

If I do not place any conditions on how good done to others can be accomplished ( whichever the source is) how can we build that bridge if you place a condition on me?

We are almost there equaly lovely person you are....maybe the moment we place conditions on one another, we jeopardize that harmony which results on accomplishing something positive in this vast country.

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05-20-2003, 06:53 AM	#172
Muffinstuffer Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mountain Home, AR Posts: 199	On a loosely related topic..... First post and 10 pages so far. I'll have to come up with something equally controversial for my encore.

05-20-2003, 07:11 AM	#173
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Good for you Muffin They call that beginner's luck here on this forum. At least that is what they told me.

05-20-2003, 08:02 AM	#174
Muffinstuffer Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mountain Home, AR Posts: 199	Gee, you mean they don't call it 'fundie's luck?'

05-20-2003, 08:42 AM	#176
Muffinstuffer Regular Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Mountain Home, AR Posts: 199	I'm staying out of this one.

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