mattmattmattmattv

Guys, I have been coming on Infidels.org for almost 2 years, but I forget my password and change my name every so often. I have been here under 2 or 3 other names, and I am quite familiar with the site. I have not been on it in a while, though. Thus, having visited semi-regularly for so long, I was disheartened to find that the resident 'infidels' on this site were writing poorly, trying MUCH too hard to sound intelligent (coming off only as having an insecurity in their own positions on the issues discussed here, an insecurity that they felt the need to cover up with big words), and making fun of the theists, things I don't remember from when I last frequented this forum.

I am accustomed to seeing the theists do these things, not the 'infidels'--they, the theists, are the ones with the illogical beliefs which they must defend at all costs. They are the ones who usually hide behind their slight knowledge of the "Laws of Logic" and words too big for their britches for fear that their worldview and the hope and joy that come with it will be effectively destroyed. And when so-called "freethinkers" do these things, I admit that it surprises and bothers me.

To respond to a few of the replies to the original post:

About the calculus remark: VERY true! I just graduated high school, and the highest math I have ever taken was Trig/PreCalc. I am most definitely NOT a math person!

To Paul: You're right! I don't understand a lot of it. I don't know the 'Laws of Logic,' so often appealed to in the discussions here, and I am no good at math or physics or science in general. But not many people are familiar with those things--and isn't that really the reason people write about/with them? To intimidate their intellectual opponent ("Whew! He's WAY smarter than me, he MUST be right about that whole God-doesn't-exist thing!")?

~~WHEN YOU TRY AND WIN BY USING BAD LOGIC OR BAD WORDS, OR WHEN YOU DOGMATICALLY ASSERT YOUR VIEWS INSTEAD OF DEFENDING THEM, YOU ARE DOING NO BETTER THAN MOST OF THE THEISTS ON THIS SITE ARE!

~~THE BOTTOME LINE is this: If we're really right, we can afford to be more gracious, right?

Dear Moderator (DarkBronzePlant?): Please leave this just a short time, since this is the forum the original post was in, and I want the same people to get a chance to read my reply. I'll try to stay on topic from now on.

[ July 24, 2002: Message edited by: mattmattmattmattv ]</p>

DMB

Hello Matt**4! I think on a previous thread you were complaining about people using the vocabulary of college professors.

So you have just left high school. Does that mean that you are now going on to a university where your ears will be daily assaulted by the high-powered rants of professors?

If so, you might get to like the language and even come to adopt it yourself.

Perhaps you are a conspiracy theorist and believe that people here are using esoteric language in order to achieve their evil ends. Why can't you simply accept that people who come here use the type of language they are used to in their normal lives? In particular, if they are discussing something in one of the "higher" fora, they may well use technical terms appropriate to the subject under discussion. Those who don't understand a word can always request an explanation, or even &lt;shock! horror!&gt; use a dictionary.

mattmattmattmattv

By the way, while I'm already peeving everyone off by pointing out REALLY annoying things, I might as well say that it is REALLY annoying when people quote entire original posts in their replies for no apparent reason.

Does everyone know how to reply to a post? You only click on those quotation marks if you want to quote the original post within your reply. Otherwise, scroll ALL the way down past all of the replies and there is a "Post Reply" button (right next to the "Post New Topic" button).

Please, don't quote unless you are replying to a single statement in a long post, and you need to pull it out of the original to let others know what, specifically, you're replying to. If you quote the whole thing for no reason, it just makes the whole string of post and replies longer, which means it takes more time to load and more time to read.

Thanks.

Theli

Yes. I find it really annoying to. The threadpages gets huge, just because people are too lazy to reduce the quote.

BTW, I think you are on the wrong forum.
It should be over here: <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=7" target="_blank">Bugs, Problems, & Complaints</a>

Automaton

Oh, go shove it up your ass.

Perchance

Matt:

I agree with DMB. Some people use this kind of language in their everyday lives, whether because they have jobs that get them used to it (maybe they are college professors) or because they simply speak more formally than other people. I tend to speak more formally, even in informal situations, simply because I'm an English major and am therefore required to read quite a bit of material that is written that way. Whether it is a 'higher' level or not is open to interpretation... but if you mean that it generally requires more education, then, probably, yes.

I see no reason you can't ask someone to explain his or her point if you think that it's not clear. However, using insults and a condescending tone towards the people you feel are doing this is not likely to win you results. As I said, quite a few people don't realize they're being formal; it's just a natural way of writing to them.

Why not ask them what they mean or ask if they realize that their posts are hard to understand (if you find them so), rather than accusing them of using language deliberately to befuddle others?

-Perchance.

Clutch

Matt,

1) When you post in explicitly scientific threads, or just on threads that raise points having scientific overtones, it's foolish to complain when people bring their relevant mathematical and scientific knowledge to bear.

2) When you post in explicitly philosophical threads -- like basically every thread here is -- it's foolish to complain when people use terms and reasoning tools that have been specially developed for thinking and talking about fine and fussy conceptual distinctions. Whether philosophy is anything more than this is a good question. But there's no question that it is at least this. Talking casually and reasoning sloppily are not ways of getting clear on anything. Logic and a somewhat specialized vocabulary are important tools for the sorts of debates that go on here.

3) On both counts, your complaints seem to amount to: I don't understand you guys, therefore you're all full of hot air. Matt, if that's your default assumption in life, you will be uneducable. Certainly there are some posters here who habitually package vague thinking in inept logical garb, trying to produce some sort of bogus clarity. To my eye, these are evenly split among the theists, atheists, and mysterians. But many regulars here are articulate, deeply informed, and logico-mathematically gifted. (Personally I have learned a great deal from them!) If they're replying to your post with something you don't quite understand, chances are very good that you ought either (i) politely ask them to spell it out in more detail or (ii) hit the books and get up to speed. Or both, ideally.

4) Finally, your complaint has not simply been that people are using math and logic, but that they are using them badly. Since you admit you haven't much of a grasp of either discipline, on what grounds do you evaluate the competence of others in them?

Mageth

Coming soon to a forum near you, MISS MattMattMattMatters, whose daily threads address forum etiquette, style and language usage.

banditoloco

I find myself using a dictionary nearly every time i visit this forum. It is quite useful. In fact, I just open up a new window for dictionary.com, so i have to expend very little energy in looking up words, so there is no reason that I can see for not using a dictionary when necessary. You should try it, Matt.

Non-praying Mantis

Just curious, what handle(s) did you post under before?

Yeah, it also bugs me when people quote the entire message in their post and then do not refer to it. What REALLY bugs me is that sometimes people will leave a post with only the quoted material and nothing else!

What's up with that?

NPM