christ-on-a-stick

Hi markstake, (emphasis mine)

Alas, this can lead to a whole NEW "negative of Christianity - a tendency of "born-again" types to fail to take responsibility for their own actions whilst hiding behind the convenient cloak of "the debbil made me do it"!!!

Not a Good Thing (TM).

One of our users here had a story about his father who was a basically a con man and incorrigible (and violent) criminal. Upon being sentenced to prison, he "found Jesus" (whether genuinely or as another con, not known for sure). He ended up getting a judge to lop YEARS off his sentence because of his obvious "transformation". Somehow I doubt that the victims of his crimes would see that a justice, yet it happens a lot in the penal system.

Bah.

orac

One point: as long as they're not harming anyone else, I don't care if someone spend all day every day praying to garden gnomes to deliver them from eternal damnation in the land of the sugar plum fairies for the sin of skipping on a tuesday. I won't respect their critical thinking abilities, but I won't waste my time trying to convert them.

Unfortunately, christians spend a lot of time trying to convert the rest of the world. These people are going to find arguments and reistance. However, they can't use "this is my belief, you have to respect it" to stop arguments, because the problem is that they want it to be everyone's belief.

(I'm using the generic 'you' here - not referring to any particular person.)

1) If you try to convert someone, they're entitled to argue with you. Deal with it, or quit trying to convert us.

2) If you ask an atheist about their beliefs, they probably won't say they believe in God just to avoid offending you. If you don't want to hear answers you don't like, then stop asking questions. (Note: this is not a religious board. Anyone who comes here and is offended that people aren't religious needs some serious work on their critical thinking skills.)

3) Atheists don't go door to door recruiting for the Evil Atheist Conspiracy. Christians regularly go door to door trying to convert the heathens. Exactly what was the problem again? Something about atheists not respecting people's beliefs?


If it's what someone wants, fine. Many people think it's a little silly to spend a large part of your life praying for what you want, when you could be working to achieve what you want, but that's too complicated for many people.

Btw, you asked for bad things about being a christian, not for arguments that would persuade someone to abandon christianity. The fact is an atheist will think praying to a non existant god is silly, at best. What did you expect? Friendship doesn't require a belief in god, and prayer is not as effective as actually doing something.

Catholics don't have a monopoly on guilt - there's also protestants and baptists of various flavours, mormons, jehova's witnesses, and more than a few other smaller variants. They all share a common belief in people's inherent evil and need for salvation. Where do you think Jesus fits in to christianity?

Also, repentance doesn't make you good. No matter how many sins are forgiven, people are still considered evil. The best you can offer is that some variants spend less time on the guilt than others, but they all have a definate belief in the sin associated with victimless "crimes" such as masturbation and not attending church regularly.

Some people think the truth is pretty important. We can't force anyone to agree, though.

I would point out that everyone who hasn't died of smallpox was very happy that someone had the critical thinking skills required to figure out how to eradicate it. Note that prayer was not the answer.

Still, many people prefer simple comfort to actual results. As long as they don't want to stop me getting real cures for deadly diseases, that's fine. However, when they start wanting the benefit of critical thinking, they should consider joining in and actually doing something useful.

How is "I deserve to be tortured for eternity because I was attracted to a person of the same sex as myself" a healthy productive thought? If your argument is that it doesn't affect naturally heterosexual monogamous people, then why is this repression necessary? After all, it's definately harmin people. Why should heterosexual people be required to actively oppress other people?


I just realised I put a lot of effort into saying "I'm happy to argue with any intelligent people who want to argue with me."

christ-on-a-stick

Just had a thought...

Most people would say that a full-grown adult who still believes in their childhood "imaginary friend" is less-than-mentally-healthy. Even if they don't go around smiting people on the imaginary friend's say-so, most people would probably still consider it less than well-adjusted.

I respectfully submit there there is really no difference.

Amos

You're wrong because Catholics have the sacrament of confession to deal with guilt. The forgiveness of sin is the aim of confession and to be forgiven is to be left without guilt.

Of course you are correct that real Christians are not fakers but what, may I ask, are real Christians doing in churches? Churches are for sinners and since sinners are not Christians Christians should not be going to churches.

christ-on-a-stick

Amos sez, Somewhat related to what I wrote above, this also seems to be a potential pitfall of religiosity in that the cosmic "get out of jail free" card may be especially appealing to those who don't truly desire to refrain from "sinful" behavior.

Sin = go to confession. Clean as a whistle!!!
Sin = go to confession. Woo-hoo, blank slate!
Rinse and Repeat.

Shadowy Man

There's a difference if everyone else believes in your imaginary friend, too.

christ-on-a-stick

....apparently, society thinks so anyway.

What's *really* scary is when powerful political leaders with armies and masses of lethal weaponry at their command decide that their "imaginary friends" don't get along.

Ronin

Well, since everyone is so seriously addressing what I consider a naturally observable problem with christianity (and theism in even more general terms), I will additionally offer that it is the unyielding reliance upon a set of fixed, intolerant, inconsistent and outright nonsensical tenets found in a holy book prime that is problematic to improving a compassionate treatment of the human condition.

In fact, these sacred texts really do not even strive to address the 'human condition' realistically, in favor of perpetuating the unreliable promises of an afterlife based, by sheer coincidence, upon the particular dogmatic 'belief' in a specific deity as reflected by certain patriarchal representative authority figures.

From the christian book of Love:

Romans ~

1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

16:18
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Thessalonians ~

1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Hebrews ~

3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

James ~

4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Peter ~

4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

John ~

2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

5:12
He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

2 John ~

1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

1:10
If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

1:11
For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

...and, in summation, these unbridled words of compassion from the 'prince of peace' found in the book of Luke ~


19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Just a small sample of the real problems that followers of such a dogma present to our living world.

Shall we move on to the Q'uran?

christ-on-a-stick

Great post Ronin!!!

Another one that I think applies to almost all but the most liberal of Xian churches...

The inherent inferiority of women. Women who subscribe to Xianity must accept all the hooey in the Good Book - both Old AND New Testaments - that relegates females to second-class citizens if not outright chattel.

Even setting aside the blatant misogny of the OT, in the New Testament we've got all of Paul's harebrained teachings of women not being able to speak in church, being submissive to their husbands, blah blah blah.

YUCK!!!

Amos

Exactly, so now Confession encourages sin and drives believers deep into the jungle of life where they will carve a clearing for themselves and hatch the firstborn of their own.

The point here is that "the inner man" must convict the "outer man" and confession is no more then white washing the outer man while giving him/her a faint hope that things will get better and while doing so drive them deeper into the jungle of life where the cross of eternal salvation awaits the lost sinner.

Don't you think that is neet, clever and crafty? I suppose you don't believe it, do you?