Freethought & Rationalism Archive

markstake · 03-11-2003, 08:27 PM

Just a general question: What's the real problem with being a Christian?

Let me qualify the context of the question.

I don't want any answers about how it's bad for society, what atrocities were done in the name of religion, or things in that vein. I'm strictly considering the question from the perspective of the individual person who is a Christian.

I haven't seen anything yet that says this is bad for a person (although I admittedly haven't read everything), and have read of some studies (I can't vouch for the validity of the studies) that say there are positive health and emotional effects for the person involved.

So, again, what's the real problem?

philechat · 03-11-2003, 08:43 PM

Christianity forbid one of conceiving certain thoughts due to (their belief of) God's ability to read people's thoughts. That is, the individual Christian is told not to "think" a certain way because of "immorality".

They may forbid themselves of certain experiences because of their religious beliefs, leading to a less fulfilled life.

The belief of afterlife making this life less worthy of living compared to the "other" life.

Guilt-complex associated with the problems of sexuality (especially for homosexual believers)

The inability to develop tolerance toward novel or unusual ideas. (particularly true for the more conservative stripes)

Sometimes the psychological problems of the individual become untreated (depression believed as guilt, lack of will)

In some cases, decline in creativity and imagination (late Wordsworth and T.S.Eliot)

kesparate · 03-12-2003, 01:10 AM

the short answer can be found in the new testament 1 corinthians chapter 6 verses 19&20
it says, explicitly, you are god's slave.
christianty teaches it's suplicants to suborn their will. to live and act as slaves, and if they don't they shall be forever punished. personaly i find this to be destructive to the poor shmucks. people are not meant to be slaves.

ju'iblex · 03-12-2003, 01:40 AM

repressed homosexuality coupled with social pressure and overwhelming guilt. Why do you think theres such a high incidence of gay teen suicide? Religion would have a fair bit to do with the answer if you ask me.

Ronin · 03-12-2003, 02:03 AM

...and need I mention ~

Jayjay · 03-12-2003, 02:44 AM

I don't think there is anything wrong with being a christian. All the problems associated with religion start when christians start pushing their agenda on other people, non-believers and believers alike. The same could be said of any belief system... on a personal level there nothing "wrong" with believing the supremacy of white race, or that the workers of all nations should unite, or that you should hop on board the Hale-Bopp comet that will take you to Pluto.

Ronin · 03-12-2003, 02:53 AM

Hey, you've hit right on it Jayjay ~ as 'pushing their agenda' is inherent in the dogma of christianity.

Treacle Worshipper · 03-12-2003, 07:35 AM

From a strictly personal perspective, I can think of only 2 things.
1) Suppressing my sexuality. I am bi. I got so good at ignoring the "unacceptable" part of me that I didn't realise that I could acknowledge and accept it until several weeks after I had left the church.
2) Being told (repeatedly) that my depression was due to my relationship with Jesus being wrong - which of course meant that I was wrong, because Jesus is god, & god's perfect. It would have been nice to get some meds before the suicide attempt.
Apart from these major problems, my contact with the church was almost entirely positive, at a personal level.

[Note: neither of these things was a significant motivating factor in me leaving the church]

TW

braces_for_impact · 03-12-2003, 07:44 AM

As a Christian, I was of course influenced by "Christian values". I had faith, which is belief withouit evidence. I had no critical thinking skills, because all of my answers were provided for me. I lost 10% (minimum) of my income a year, when I was struggling financially. I has a 'holier than thou' attitude. I wasted a lot of time involved with church. These were all harmful.

Shake · 03-12-2003, 07:57 AM

I think a lot of the big points have been hit on here already, sex issues, guilt, etc. But, let's not forget the extreme closed-mindedness of certain sects of Xianity. Closed to reality, closed to scientific evidence, closed to social injustices (especially since they're the cause of certain types), etc.

03-11-2003, 08:27 PM	#1
markstake Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Iowa Posts: 42	What's the real problem? Just a general question: What's the real problem with being a Christian? Let me qualify the context of the question. I don't want any answers about how it's bad for society, what atrocities were done in the name of religion, or things in that vein. I'm strictly considering the question from the perspective of the individual person who is a Christian. I haven't seen anything yet that says this is bad for a person (although I admittedly haven't read everything), and have read of some studies (I can't vouch for the validity of the studies) that say there are positive health and emotional effects for the person involved. So, again, what's the real problem?

03-12-2003, 01:10 AM	#3
kesparate New Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: IL Posts: 3	what's wrong with christians? the short answer can be found in the new testament 1 corinthians chapter 6 verses 19&20 it says, explicitly, you are god's slave. christianty teaches it's suplicants to suborn their will. to live and act as slaves, and if they don't they shall be forever punished. personaly i find this to be destructive to the poor shmucks. people are not meant to be slaves.

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03-11-2003, 08:43 PM	#2
philechat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Mind of the Other Posts: 886	Christianity forbid one of conceiving certain thoughts due to (their belief of) God's ability to read people's thoughts. That is, the individual Christian is told not to "think" a certain way because of "immorality". They may forbid themselves of certain experiences because of their religious beliefs, leading to a less fulfilled life. The belief of afterlife making this life less worthy of living compared to the "other" life. Guilt-complex associated with the problems of sexuality (especially for homosexual believers) The inability to develop tolerance toward novel or unusual ideas. (particularly true for the more conservative stripes) Sometimes the psychological problems of the individual become untreated (depression believed as guilt, lack of will) In some cases, decline in creativity and imagination (late Wordsworth and T.S.Eliot)

03-12-2003, 01:40 AM	#4
ju'iblex Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sydney Australia and beyond the realms of Gehenna Posts: 6,035	repressed homosexuality coupled with social pressure and overwhelming guilt. Why do you think theres such a high incidence of gay teen suicide? Religion would have a fair bit to do with the answer if you ask me.

03-12-2003, 02:03 AM	#5
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	...and need I mention ~

03-12-2003, 02:44 AM	#6
Jayjay Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 6,261	I don't think there is anything wrong with being a christian. All the problems associated with religion start when christians start pushing their agenda on other people, non-believers and believers alike. The same could be said of any belief system... on a personal level there nothing "wrong" with believing the supremacy of white race, or that the workers of all nations should unite, or that you should hop on board the Hale-Bopp comet that will take you to Pluto.

03-12-2003, 02:53 AM	#7
Ronin Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 5,047	Hey, you've hit right on it Jayjay ~ as 'pushing their agenda' is inherent in the dogma of christianity.

03-12-2003, 07:35 AM	#8
Treacle Worshipper Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 931	From a strictly personal perspective, I can think of only 2 things. 1) Suppressing my sexuality. I am bi. I got so good at ignoring the "unacceptable" part of me that I didn't realise that I could acknowledge and accept it until several weeks after I had left the church. 2) Being told (repeatedly) that my depression was due to my relationship with Jesus being wrong - which of course meant that I was wrong, because Jesus is god, & god's perfect. It would have been nice to get some meds before the suicide attempt. Apart from these major problems, my contact with the church was almost entirely positive, at a personal level. [Note: neither of these things was a significant motivating factor in me leaving the church] TW

03-12-2003, 07:44 AM	#9
braces_for_impact Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: In a nondescript, black helicopter. Posts: 6,637	As a Christian, I was of course influenced by "Christian values". I had faith, which is belief withouit evidence. I had no critical thinking skills, because all of my answers were provided for me. I lost 10% (minimum) of my income a year, when I was struggling financially. I has a 'holier than thou' attitude. I wasted a lot of time involved with church. These were all harmful.

03-12-2003, 07:57 AM	#10
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	I think a lot of the big points have been hit on here already, sex issues, guilt, etc. But, let's not forget the extreme closed-mindedness of certain sects of Xianity. Closed to reality, closed to scientific evidence, closed to social injustices (especially since they're the cause of certain types), etc.

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