MrDarwin

No time to discuss, but this article was recently published in the American Journal of Botany:

<a href="http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/10/1709" target="_blank">Origin of the Hawaiian endemic mints within North American Stachys (Lamiaceae)</a>

Like the <a href="http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/carr/silversword.htm" target="_blank">Hawaiian silversword alliance</a> the analysis of the relationships of the endemic mints of Hawaii suggests that a single ancient colonization event from a North American ancestor gave rise to a rapid and extreme radiation into several new genera. In the case of the mints, however, the new genera form a monophyletic group nested well within a well-known genus, Stachys.

Since most creationists accept "genus" as more or less equivalent to "kind", and this shows several genera originating from within another genus, is this a case of macroevolution? Is this a case of new "kinds" originating? Perhaps more importantly, how did several new genera originate without new "information" also originating?0

tgamble

Of course not. Evilution is a filthy stinking lie from Satan. This is just variation. Kind in this case ia a bit higher then genus. It's just a loss of information. It's still Hawaiian endemic mints!!

Nobody has turned a rock into a dog, or seen a monkey give birth to humans! The BIBLE IS THE TRUTH! ACCEPT it or burn in hell by the almighty god. Who loves you.

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]</p>

theyeti

According to most creationists, "family" is more or less equivalent to "kind". But the fact that several genera are nested within another recognized genus just goes to show how arbitrary those classifications are anyway. The old genus could be easily turned into a family without changing the phylogenetic tree one bit.

Oh, and plants aren't living.

theyeti

tgamble

Be interesting to know if a genus in a family has more genetic information than another genus in the same family. Be interesting to see creationists explain that.

Be interesting to know if there are any complex structures in a genus that other members of the same family don't have. Logicaly, cretinists would have to admit that complex structures evolved. Which means they wouldn't....

edited to add.

yup, genus Brachinus. Family Carabidae.

Guess that whole defense system is just variation.

[ November 15, 2002: Message edited by: tgamble ]</p>

Godless Dave

It's still a plant.

Happy Wonderer

Are these chocolate or macadamia-nut mints?

HW