brighid

Eric,

You genuninely seem to be in pain over these decisions you are attempting to make. Believe me, I (and so many others here) understand what this is like. We have been in your place, we have walked to the next station in our journey, and many have excellent advise to give. Chose to do with it what you wish, that is your right.

I will caution you not to follow hollow dreams you know are "crap", in a shallow attempt to fill this void you feel right now. I don't mean that in a disrespectful manner, so I hope you take no offense. But you are seeking fulfillment outside of yourself and you will not find it without, until you find it within. That sounds rather New Agey perhaps (and it is, in part taken from the Charge of the Goddess) but regardless of the source, it is in my experience VERY sound advise. What are you passionate about? What excites your mind? What and whom do you love? Try and answer those questions and search for your own meaning. I know you have discarded that advise from ju'iblex, but really that is something you must own. It cannot be some cookie cutter, one size fits all, generic meaning any Tom, Dick or Harry says IS the meaning of life.

Explore all your religious and philisophical options. Try them all on for size and CONTINUE to question. Neo-paganism might be the right path for you now (or it may not be), as it is a stepping stone for many people as it was for me (from Catholicism, to liberal Christianity, to Neo-Paganism, to atheism) This life is a journey and we have to struggle through much of it, but that doesn't mean it lacks meaning.

I don't know about you, but no matter how much I truly desired to wrap my mind around Christianity I simply could not intellectually trick myself into believing. Paganism was a good stepping stone because it allowed me the intellectual and creative freedom to create my own religious philosophy, with Gods and Goddesses that were not cruel and unusual in their punishments and rewards. However, as I continued to search I realized those Gods and Goddesses were no more real then any other. I anquished over that as I had dedicated myself in a coven. Then I found ii and my deeper exploration began. I have never turned back and my resolve deepens every day.

I am a strong atheist when it comes to those Gods thus far fashioned by the minds of men. I am agnostic as to whether there is SOMETHING out there that can be defined as a God. I refuse to worship a cruel, sanguinary, war monger of a God who cannot even accurately inspire the minds of men (that He created) to report the actual nature of His divinity. If I would not pledge my mortal love to a man like this, why would I pledge my potentially eternal soul and unwavering devotion to a God such as this?

Explore the libraries of ii as it is a vast wealth of resources to answer so many of your questions. You are at the beginning of your intellectual journey and perhaps you will end up as a devout Christian ... perhaps not. But read, question, explore, read and question so more. Take no ones word for it; not mine, not the Churches, or any one else although heeding advise can be a wise choice if you find it reasonable and sound. Also know that you are not alone in struggle or pain. You are not the first to explore these questions, anguish over them and feel as you do.

Vent to us, talk to us, explore all that we and this world has to offer. Create your own meaning. I am not sure if you are familiar with any Taoist texts, but I have found the Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu to be useful and insightful. If you are at all interested in exploring neo-paganism for information purposes just PM me and I will be happy to share what I know. http://www.witchvox.com is a decent resource.

Check out http://www.uua.org/ for information about the UU faith and where to find a congregation near you.

Happy Hunting.

Brighid

Radorth

The point was that it is not obnoxious by definition to all "intellectuals."

How about nascent Christianity then? Then you get Peter telling you not to resist evil, Paul telling you to "speak evil of no man" and nine miraculous gifts all together. I'd definitely go with that, if you can talk God into giving you all those gifts to abuse.

Yeah right. Since you can't find more than two or three, and we now virtually all agree on the doctrine of justification by faith and the Nicene Creed, I'd say you are just blowing smoke and crossing your fingers. Amongst Protestants here you will find differences on whether the gifts of the Spirit are to be sought or not, and purgatory. You have 98 more to list. Get busy.

That's not the point anyway. It's that the Protestant can read it for himself or herself, and decide about such thing.

Yes it does- enough to see through your smoke and mirrors.

Absolutely. All other religions can only feed self-righteousness, because they depend on good works.

No brag. Just fact ma'm.

Rad

Cthulhu

No, I quit smoking a couple of years back, and I don't need to cross my fingers. I don't require luck when dealing with you, Rad, just a high bullshit-tolerance level.

Two or three? There are dozens of different denominations (and yes, even hundreds, depending on where you place the dividing line) within Xianity. Whether the difference between some of these denominations is over major or minor points isn't really relevant to this discussion. Where did I say that the different interpretations all had to be over what you would consider to be fundamental or basic beliefs? I didn't.

If your "point of reference' was as "clear and detailed" as you claim, then there would only be one possible interpretation. If God wrote the rulebook he expected everyone to follow, surely he would make it as unambiguous as possible.

See above.

Get bent.

The fact that they are Protestant would indicate they've already come to a decision.

The only mirror is the one I'm holding up to you to show you what a jackass looks like.

I've never met a self-righteous Buddhist or New-Ager. On the other hand, I can swing a dead cat and hit five self-righteous Xians.

Definition of self-righteous:
: convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic.

Yep, that describes about 90% of the Xians I've come across.

Stephen T-B

This comes from an Old Man. I was 60 at the weekend.

Overriding necessity is the only thing which will enable you to believe the unbelievable.
Perhaps you have it?
Do as Radorth suggests; it might work for you

If it doesn’t, you’ll have lost nothing, but you will have gained knowledge about yourself and in due course will understand the power of your own mind and relish its independence.
If you yearn for a spiritual dimension, sit back with a glass of whisky, or a reefer, and listen to some Gregorian chants and let their spirituality waft over you. Sacred music is very very soothing, and for me seems to feed some inner need..

HelenM

Eric, have you considered seeking help for depression? You could have a medical check-up to see whether you have any physical problems that are causing you to feel the way you do. And you could see a counselor who could help you think about how to make your life more enjoyable.

Helen

2tadpoles

never mind

2tadpoles

Lisarea, I just wanted to say that you've pretty much summed up what I think. I have been calling myself a pantheist, for want of a better label, but I don't really care much for that label, either. The "theist" part of the word still implies that there is a being needing worshipping somewhere. I don't like to use the word "naturalist," because too many people think of nudist camps when they hear that. Not that I have any personal issues with nudists, but I'm not one and I don't want people to get confused.

Radorth

"Whether there are major or minor differences is irrelevant."

"You're a jackass"

"Get bent."

I must admit, such responses leave me speechless.

I don't care if it's a hundred percent. Christianity is still unique in this respect, and Paul explicitly says "...having no righteousness of my own," and "though I am nothing," assertions found nowhere in any other religious writings that I know of. Nor can any other religion refer to the entire body of believers "the saints" because they require saintly works.

Christianity is the life, for those who don't consider themselves religious material. Lord knows I never did.

Rad

Heleilu

Have you looked into making up your own religion? If you really want to deceive yourself with hopes of an afterlife and loving god(s), it's much easier if there are gods and principles you can respect. [I know from personal experience how easy this is for those of strong imagination.]

Dark Jedi

I'd be happier if they weren't Christians in the first place. Then yoey wouldn't have killed millions of "Christ killers".