Eric Starnes

Well, i have recently had a tramatic "deconversion" from objectivism and am looking for some direction in my life. I am in the process of doing a kind of "cost benefit" analysis of various worldviews and so far religion is winning.

Christianity(largest religion in my area) Cost:

1. Worldview inconsistant with reality.
2. Guilt(some versions more then others)
3. Have to ignore very persausive/logical atheistic arguements
4. 10% of my money.
5. Umm.....?

Christianity: Benefits

1. Hope for everlasting life in heaven.
2. Support from strong communities just about anywhere in the world.
3. Answers to almost every moral problem, and spiritual advisors for new problems.
4. No harrassment because of being atheist.
5. I can finally be accepted as a "true" american.
6. My life will have "cosmic" meaning and direction.
7. "Personal relationship" with creater of the universe.
8. Satisfaction of knowing bad people will burn in hell.

Secular Humanism(secular philosophy most appealing to me) Cost:

1. No easy moral answers.
2. No large communities anywere.
3. Fear of death.
4. Have to face the meaninglessness/hopelessness of the universe.

Secular Humanism Benefits

1. Worlview consistant with reality
2. Dont have to give 10% of my money.
3. umm, umm???

Actually i dont know if i can overcome the fact that i have never believed in any god much less the christian god, but i am probably going to try any way. I am sure i can find some christians arround here somewhere that are proficient in brainwashing. I will have those nasty atheistic ideas out of my head in no time. Sure atheism might be consistant with reality, but damn, reality sucks. I just cant stand the meaninglessness and hoplessness of the universe.

Badfish

Hey, I'm a Christian going through exactly what you have explained.

Good post.

If there is a God, I hope we both find him and secure everlasting life.

It is possible to embrace secular reasoning while at the same time believing in Christ.

If you dig too deep, no matter which way you dig, you come up with questions that just can't be answered by humans.

philechat

Don't become a Pascal's Wager Christian! This is pure Bad Faith and I don't see how psychological comfort could really override the doubt that would always be nagging on your back.

Christianity indeed is appealing due to the "benefit" it seems to offer to people (no wonder the popularity). But say you really live in hope of that afterlife and found none (in my opinion much more probable than the wishful-thinking heaven), you just wasted your entire life in believing falsehood. Do you really want it so?

And also, read the Bible and see how much you like about this "creator". You would be surprised.

Writer@Large

Whatever works for you, and helps you get through the day. But in effect you're resorting to a variation of Pascal's Wager, and unless you can "cost benefit" Christianity against every other world religion, and unless you can live a lie [I'm assuming you do *not* believe in Jesus Christ, a required "cost" for getting into Heaven, or you wouldn't be considering it in such a capitalist way], I don't think you'll be happy.

--W@L

JEST2ASK

Tithing ... is not a requirement in all Churches (and hard to check) ... so since you are already going to me lying about your "True" beliefs you can simpy make a show of contributing 10% (don't worry you will be in good company in most churches)

christ-on-a-stick

Hi Eric and welcome to II!
What's the rush my friend? Stick around here for a while before making any decisions. There's some good reading to be had in these upper forums that I bet will make you think twice.

Reality *can* suck sometimes, but living a fantasy isn't the solution, especially when that fantasy involves worshipping a "God" who is a bloodthirsty and untrustworthy tyrant!!!

Seriously, check out some of the current threads in this forum for some interesting discussions on the nature of the God of the Bible... if he *was* real, I'd say as a Christian you'd have just as much reason to fear him as the non-Christian... he's not a Good Guy. However, it sounds like you *know* he doesn't exist (phew!) - and here are a few more "cons" for you to consider (of Christianity):

1. Belonging to a group that teaches and promotes intolerance toward other humans (gays & lesbians for instance).
2. Being expected to give up fun and harmless stuff that is perfectly healthy and natural but considered "sinful" by Christianity
3. Contributing to the propogation of a worldview (monotheism) that inspires people to do heinous things to each other in the false belief of an afterlife
4. Wasting lots of time (going to church, praying, reading the Bible etc.) that could be spent doing other things that will be more intellectually enriching or just enjoyable!
5. Being discouraged from questioning and learning. A Very Bad Thing (TM).

I'm sure I can come up with more but chew on those for a while!

Again, welcome. I think you'll find a lot of posters here who are a perfect example of the fact that living life as an atheist isn't necessarily "meaningless" and "hopeless".

davidH

I'm a Christian and I just thought that I would answer this:

It is good that you are searching. Trust me on this one - if you truly seek God with all your heart you will find him.

Take the Bible at its word - if God is real then you will know by what you feel when you read the Bible and pray to him. You will know the joy as I have known and be able to say "God is good".

I have said this to many people before - take God at his word, for its the only way to know whether he exists or not - if he doesn't exist you will know and likewise the opposite.

You become a Christian when you realise how sinful you are compared to God, when you realise that God will punish sin, and that he sent his Son Jesus to take the punishment in your place so that you, if you choose to do so, can believe in Jesus and ask him to remove your sins and live in you to enable you to live completely and utterly for God.

That is the gift that you only have to accept to be at peace with God and experience him with you for the rest of your life then throughout eternity.


If you have a Bible - read through Luke in the New Testament giving you the history of Jesus life on earth and what he did for us.

But the step you have made - if sincere is one towards a life of joy - knowing the peace of God in your heart.

I'll try and come back to this topic but if you want to ask anything you can get my email address in my profile.

christ-on-a-stick

davidH, Care to explain why that didn't work for scores of us here???

Bumble Bee Tuna

Benefits? Only if you can fool yourself into believing them. I certainly can't.

I can't "hope for an everlasting life in Heaven" because I could never trick myself into believing that bullshit.
I certainly can't find actual answers to any sort of problems with Christianity. I find a lot of things that make absolutely no sense but help those who are mental gymnastics experts. I find Christianity's morality grossly ineffective.
I don't experience any harassment, and if I did I would move to a different country, not convert to a ridiculous religion.
I am accepted as a "true" american by everyone I know and thus I don't care about that.
I can't just "decide" my life has cosmic meaning and suddenly be happy...Because I know that I'm just making it up! That can't help me.
I don't think a personal relationship with an imaginary being is possible, so all Christianity gives you is a mental condition.
I can't know bad people will burn in hell from Christianity. If I did manage to delude myself, I would instead believe that a large proportion of the world, both good and bad, was going to hell. I would be disgusted by this, not satisfied! That's sickening! I wouldn't even be satisfied if only "bad" people went to hell- Nobody deserves eternal punishment!

Basically it boils down to "Can someone choose their religion?" I know I can't. I believe what makes sense. Religion does not, so I cannot believe it. I did not "choose" to be an atheist. It's just the only position that makes sense to me, so it's the only one I can believe. I could invent a religion whose tenets were daily orgies and that promised heaven for everyone with no work required! That would be awesome to believe! So why pick Christianity, which seems pretty crappy to believe to me? If I were capable of deluding myself into believing whatever I wanted, I would delude myself into believing a better religion than Christianity. What makes people think they have to choose between an established religion? If you're picking from fake things there's no reason not to create your own.

I honestly cannot understand how anyone can choose a religion because they "like the way it sounds". I choose what I believe to be true based on...what is true! And nothing else!

-B

copernicus

I like the idea of this thread, Eric. It is very human to think that beliefs depend on their cost rather than their truth. Be careful of what you wish for. You may just end up believing in a religious cult that charges more than 10%.