Amen-Moses

But this indicates that the only answer you think is even possible is no, and in fact you are also condemning anyone who say's yes even though noone has even indicated that they would answer yes!

Personally I see it as a question without an easy yes or no answer because of the inclusion of "better" within the question as posed. Other discussions have been based on "harm" which at least is quantifiable but "better" is rather subjective dontcha think?

So as others have hinted, "it depends" seems to be the most rational answer unless you go further to define the exact situations being compared and that then leads to the inevitable conclusion that "right" and "wrong" are at root subjectively determined terms.

Subjectively my answer to the original question is no based on my personal experiences of the average heterosexual male.

Now let me ask you a question:

Are there any circumstances in which a sexual relationship between an adult male and female would be "better" for the female involved than a platonic one?

I can put you in contact with at least half a dozen women that would answer an emphatic "NO" based on their previous experiences with men but I doubt if that would ever convince you that your probable answer of "YES" is wrong.

Amen-Moses

JohnV

Re: AmenMoses
Er, yes, I already have a strong opinion on this subject. Your point?
Yes, it's somewhat subjective. Your point?
Incorrect. I assume taht "It depends" means "It depends on the circumstances," and implies that yes, there are circumstances under which the 7-year-old girl would be better off with a sexual relationship than with a platonic relationship. So far, no one has hinted that this is true, within the confines of the question. The few people who have suggested the possibility have left the restrictions of the question, and the circumstances they've proposed have been extremely unlikely to ever occur.

Seems like you're trying to maintain your position without actually addressing my question and giving us circumstances under which a 7-year-old girl would be better off having a sexual, rather than a platonic, relationship with a 35-year-old man, other factors being equal.

Go ahead, we're listening.
Are you implying that there are circumstances in which a 7-year-ol girl would be better off with a sexual, rather than a platonic, relationship with a 35-year-old man? If so, quit pussyfooting around the question and give us the circumstances. If not, start your own thread.

Amen-Moses

Originally posted by JohnV:

Er, yes, I already have a strong opinion on this subject. Your point?

Intractible?

Yes, it's somewhat subjective. Your point?

That was it. You keep forgetting that I am a subjectivist!

Incorrect. I assume taht "It depends" means "It depends on the circumstances," and implies that yes, there are circumstances under which the 7-year-old girl would be better off with a sexual relationship than with a platonic relationship.

So you imply it ...

So far, no one has hinted that this is true, within the confines of the question.

Ignore those given to you or ...

The few people who have suggested the possibility have left the restrictions of the question, and the circumstances they've proposed have been extremely unlikely to ever occur.

... dismiss them by restricting the question to more objective domains.

Seems like you're trying to maintain your position without actually addressing my question

[b]I addressed and answered your question fully. (btw I don't have "a position", unlike you I am open minded.)/b]

Are you implying that there are circumstances in which a 7-year-ol girl would be better off with a sexual, rather than a platonic, relationship with a 35-year-old man?

No I asked you a question which you have failed to address, do you have an answer?

Amen-Moses

JohnV

I must have missed it. Here's the question:

Consider two scenarios:
1) A 35-year-old man has a loving, sexual relationship with a 7-year-old girl.

2) A 35-year-old man has a loving, platonic relationship with a 7-year-old girl.

If all circumstances other than the relationship are equal, are there circumstances in which the sexual relationship would be better for the girl than the platonic relationship? If so, what are those circumstances?

Please answer this question. If you feel you already have, repeat the answer. Then I'll address it.

Give us the circumstances. Otherwise, it's obvious you're attempting a dodge, along with a shift of the issue and the burden of proof.

Hehe. Waiting...

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: JohnV ]</p>

Amen-Moses

What part of:

"Subjectively my answer to the original question is no based on my personal experiences of the average heterosexual male."

Was beyond your meagre intellect?

And please don't sign off with "Hehe" it makes you sound like some dirty old pervert.

Amen-Moses

JohnV

I thought it was a typo - that you missed a 't,' i.e. the 'no' was a 'not.' It would have helped if you had put the 'no' in quotes. Also, I was laughing at your description of yourself as an "average heterosexual male."

Anyway, cool - you agree too!

Grizzly

Amen-Moses

Please refrain from ad hom attacks. Feel free, however, to attack ideas and positions.

Grizzly
Moderator-at-Large

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: Grizzly ]</p>

Amen-Moses

I wasn't referring to myself!

Amen-Moses

Bryan Mc

This is nonsense. The original question, even without JohnV's subsequent clarification included the concept of "love" as in "loving, platonic relationship". Someone who is having "loving" relationship with you doesn't starve you, force you to live out in the elements, beat you, or torture your parents.

And frankly, the first scenario described above isn't "loving" either. The sexual predator has just managed not to compound the horrible situation he's already coercing/manipulating the child into with additional horrible conduct like starvation, neglect, physical abuse, and torture of loved ones. But he isn't doing anything "good" by any stretch of the imagination.

Amen-Moses

"good" wasn't in the question, "better" was. Oh and I agree with you on the "loving" bit but having some experience with battered spouses I can say that "love" is not as simple as you or I may like it to be.

Amen-Moses