Freethought & Rationalism Archive

cjr1851 · 02-22-2002, 03:14 AM

I my experience there are religious Jews and nonreligious Jews. My mother is a nonreligious Jew. I have questioned her about her feelings of 'Jewishness' and she informed me that being Jewish has nothing to do with religion "it is a feeling".

It appears to me that this position is just another way in which people can anchor themselves to a load of historical baggage as a means of feeling separate (and perhaps therefore superior) to others.

My own belief is that life is way too short for this type of cr@p.

Orpheous99 · 02-22-2002, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Major Billy:


Well said Orpheous! Only 1 question though:

Which is the true "Jewish religion", <a href="http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/Satmar_Rav_quote_reg-publ-aga-Zion-State.htm" target="_blank">Satmar</a> or <a href="http://www.lubavitch.com" target="_blank">Lubavitch</a>?

Or which of the 12 tribes as well. That, they will have to decide fir themselves. How about which Christian Religion as well.

Orpheous99 · 02-22-2002, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cjr1851:
I my experience there are religious Jews and nonreligious Jews. My mother is a nonreligious Jew. I have questioned her about her feelings of 'Jewishness' and she informed me that being Jewish has nothing to do with religion "it is a feeling".

It appears to me that this position is just another way in which people can anchor themselves to a load of historical baggage as a means of feeling separate (and perhaps therefore superior) to others.

My own belief is that life is way too short for this type of cr@p.

Non-religious Jew is an oxymoron.

sighhswolf · 02-22-2002, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by devnet:
The Orthodox Jewish definition is "one born to a Jewish mother" (hmmm... that makes Ephraim and Manasseh, the sons of Joseph and the Egyptian woman, non-jews...). The definition is what's causing so much havoc in Israel, because there are many immigrants (from Russia especially) who see themselves as Jews but come to a stumbling block when they want to marry, for instance. Marriage in Israel is entirely in control of the local Jewish Rabbinate (or Talibanate, more like), and civil marriage can be performed only outside. As for conversion to Judaism, only Orthodox conversion (giyur kahalakha, "conversion as required by law", which takes years to complete) is state-approved (until now, perhaps).

Heck, I deem it incumbent to disobey the God of the Bible (if he exists), yet I never consider myself a non-Jew. Bertrand Russel wrote Why I Am Not A Christian, and Ibn Warraq wrote Why I Am Not A Muslim, but I can't possibly write Why I Am Not A Jew. There's more to Judaism than theistic belief and performance of robotic rabbinical commands.

Interesting too Devnet, is the fact tha part of
the Jews non-acceptance of Jesus as messiah is directedly tied to your above comments concerning
bloodlines and geneology.
Judaism is a way of life, it's a culture in and of itself.
I think I may have mentioned this here before but
I had a friend that decided to convert to Judaism.
In his initial interview with the Rabbi, he was told that you dont become a part of the jewish community or Judaism on a whim.
The Rabbi told him that he must complete a least
one full year of study before they would even consider his conversion.
The reasoning is that you must reorganize your entire life to convert from christianity to Judaism.

Wolf

Gurdur · 02-22-2002, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheous99:


Non-religious Jew is an oxymoron.

Isn't it so lucky that atheists and agnostics are always free from dogmatism and bigotry?

ooooops <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Megatron · 02-22-2002, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheous99:

Non-religious Jew is an oxymoron.

Bullshit. There are plenty of agnostic and atheist Jews.

But, just to play along, are you meaning to define "Jew" as a subscriber to the religion of Judaism (orthodox or otherwise)?

If you aren't, then you are making a blatant and bigoted generalization that (why am I not surprised?) carries quite a reek of anti-semitism.

[ February 22, 2002: Message edited by: Zero Angel ]

cjr1851 · 02-22-2002, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Orpheous99:

Non-religious Jew is an oxymoron.

I'm gonna tell my Mum you called her an oxymoron. You'd better hope she never visits Nova Scotia

emotional · 02-22-2002, 04:58 AM

I'm an oxymoron? Nice to know that, Orph.

Gurdur · 02-22-2002, 06:15 AM

Why does Orpheous99's statement somehow remind me of a former mayor of Vienna in the late 1890's, Karl von Lueger, who said,
"I determine who is a Jew here" ?

[References:
The Papers of Dr. Karl Lueger
Introduced, translated and edited by Richard S. Geehr.
Washington 1982.

Johannes Hawlik
Der B�rgermeister Karl Lueger und seine Zeit. Wien, M�nchen 1985]

Orpheous99 · 02-22-2002, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gurdur:


Isn't it so lucky that atheists and agnostics are always free from dogmatism and bigotry?

ooooops

How is my statement either of these? This is how the Jewish people define themselves, by their religion. Would you call someone who had sex a virgin?

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02-22-2002, 03:14 AM	#11
cjr1851 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: UK Posts: 69	I my experience there are religious Jews and nonreligious Jews. My mother is a nonreligious Jew. I have questioned her about her feelings of 'Jewishness' and she informed me that being Jewish has nothing to do with religion "it is a feeling". It appears to me that this position is just another way in which people can anchor themselves to a load of historical baggage as a means of feeling separate (and perhaps therefore superior) to others. My own belief is that life is way too short for this type of cr@p.

02-22-2002, 04:58 AM	#18
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	I'm an oxymoron? Nice to know that, Orph.

02-22-2002, 06:15 AM	#19
Gurdur Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Buggered if I know Posts: 12,410	Why does Orpheous99's statement somehow remind me of a former mayor of Vienna in the late 1890's, Karl von Lueger, who said, "I determine who is a Jew here" ? [References: The Papers of Dr. Karl Lueger Introduced, translated and edited by Richard S. Geehr. Washington 1982. Johannes Hawlik Der B�rgermeister Karl Lueger und seine Zeit. Wien, M�nchen 1985]

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