seebs

Have you considered trying to broker a deal? You see a pastor a couple of times, she sees a counselor a couple of times?

I mean, the more you describe this, the more it sounds like classic bipolar disorder.

One useful piece of advice I got from my mother-in-law, who is wise in these things: Suggest to your wife that preaching is only hurting things, right now, and what she should do is pray privately. It's no skin off of your nose for her to pray about you, but it may bring her comfort. Also, it may help remind her that her role in her religion is not to be the one who decides what happens, it's to be the one who has faith. Dunno if that'll help, but maybe it will.

BadBadBad

Darren,

Let's try to see this from her point of view, and maybe us simpleton atheists can figure this out. We're just not looking at this right. That pastor guy'll probably figure it out for ya', but let's beat him to the punch and make ya' look good to your wife. Let's forget the christ is the center of the marriage thing for a minute. These christians said the god/marriage thing wasn't it. You mentioned she said something about the kids. Maybe she thinks we have their everlasting souls at stake. Good God! I think we've skipped over that. Maybe she's got a point there.

I grew up in a atheist/christian family, and I've been dealing with this all my life. That might help. You know I don't recall my dad ever in my whole life saying anything to me about God, not one word for or against. I never heard him and my mother fight over it either. That sounds like a best case scenario for your wife. I've got a brother and sister. We're all atheists. Oouch! This was going pretty good for a minute.

I think she might be a little concerned over that. What do you think? What went wrong in my family? Maybe we'll find something there. Well let's see. My dad never said one word to me about God. Hmmm. Well that doesn't mean he's against it does it? Oh that's right, he did fight with his mother over religion in front of us. Kinda slipped out he didn't think too highly of it. We still loved him though. Oh he never did go to church like all the other daddies either did he. Is that important? I remember him cleaning out the garage and stuff while we were gone. Being a husband myself now and all, my mother must have really appreciated him over that. You know, I remember a great day, the day we complained about having to go to church, and he took up for us and said we could stay home with him. What a great guy. No Darren, I think she's got it all wrong. I don't see a problem here. Must be her. You say she's a little emotional huh? That's got to be it.

Well I don't know, there's got to be something here more than that. Surely she didn't just make up this Jesus stuff. We just seem to be missing it. Couldn't you promise to just keep your mouth shut, dang it. Maybe you could do a better job of it than my dad. If ya' did that, what's the problem now? Has she ever said anything about that guy Satan? I'm just guessing here. Do you think she might be worried about him? Is that it? I don't like the sound of them kids sizzling in Hell for eternity. You sure ya ain't in cahoots with this guy? I bet she wouldn't like that.

Maybe she thinks you are in cahoots with this guy. We all know he's sneekier than a Texas rattlesnake. Maybe she thinks you're gonna lead them kids away from God when she's not lookin'! Jeeusus! Is that what you're up to? Maybe you're gonna worship some of them other gods or somethin'! Well I know dang well the Bible has somethin' to say about that! Hold on, I've got one here somewhere. Let me wipe the dust away now. Oh, the rest of you atheists just hold your horses. It's not gonna hurt you to just look at this thing is it?

Now I opened it up to this here book called Deuteronomy. God used to worry a lot about those Jews worshipping other gods and stuff back then. Let's see what it says:

Well now Darren that sure doesn't sound too good. You better hope she doesn't actually read that Bible of hers 'cause if she does, boy you're in trouble! You better just be a good boy and go on down to that church and listen to that Pastor guy. Sounds like you're gonna need some more of that good ol' christian advice.

seebs

Seems to me that there's a huge difference between "worship other gods" and "don't worship any gods".

My mother-in-law's mother raised a large family, and at one time or another, nearly all of her kids were agnostics or atheists. She didn't push 'em, she didn't harass 'em, she prayed, and set an example, and tried to make sure that they were raised to be *good* people, belief or no. I think about half of 'em came back, years later. There's a lot to be said for not being a pushy jerk. Perhaps this example might calm your wife a bit.

Vicar Philip

Damn brett, your post is so damned sarcastic I can hardly make heads or tails out of it! But I get your drift. She has actually made the comment to me that she doesn't trust me being with the kids all the time while she is working. She is afraid that I am "poisoning their minds" against The Big White-Haired Guy in the Sky Who Loves Us. But, she has no choice but to leave them with this here EVIL ATHEIST!!

And man do I try my best to poison their sponge-like little minds. When they ask me a question about science, I do my best to give them the most current answer from science (via the internet or pz!!), even though I know I should just smile blankly and chant "goddidit.... goddidit....". Christ. Is that really what she expects me to do? I've got two boys, 13 and 10, and both of them LOVE science. One of them wants to be an astronaut, and the other is leaning towards chemistry. Does my wife really think they will cling desperately to her beloved Christianity in the face of raw, naked science?? Please.

seebs, the only thing that would calm my wife would be if she came home and found me on my knees praying convulsively to the Lord Jesus Christ in a puddle of my own piss, vomit, and tears (sorry for the visual, but that's what I honestly think). What's the Stones song where he talks about ripping his heart out on stage?

BadBadBad

Look at the situation in my family, seebs. My dad not believing in god, and not heading the family in this christian lifestyle, and not leading the way brainwashing us to think just like him has an absolute lot to do with what I believe today.

My mother was the christian wife. Submissive to the T. Worshipped my dad and was isolated from her family. My dad lead the way on everything. When he said we didn't have to go to church she caved in. It was four of us against one of her.

That doesn't sound like a very good christian model. With my dad as the leader, what are the chances of that happening. My mother would have to be the leader for that. In my family, my wife is trying to be that leader. That doesn't sound too christian either. Besides, she can't make me go to church. She can't make my kids go either. She can't get me to agree to let her take them to church unless she bullies me with the divorce threat, hence my thread fundie with brainwashed kids.

It's two days now. You haven't admitted that this rejecting god shit is a pretty big damn deal. You can't sin any bigger than that. Leading his family to other gods or rejecting yours is a very big goddamned deal to a lot of people (I won't even say True Christians). These verses in Deuteronomy, if you believe any of it, are one example of what a big deal god thinks it is. If it's not a big deal to you, acknowledge that it sure is to his wife and mine. If you want to say she's mentally ill, dig a little deeper and support Darren and lay all of christianity on the line. What you're going to find when you open your bible is a lot of contradictory and marginally related verses that don't tell us any more about how god wants Darren's wife to deal with this than on any other subject. What you're going to find when you talk to the church is the same kind of spin your own flavor of christianity just like we're seeing here. That's because there's no basis for this shit at all.

Look out Darren. You get past this initial marriage thing, the kids are your next fight. It's another one just as big and drawn out as this one, and BTW it's integral to this one too.

seebs

Lots of people do - but most of them don't remain, say, YEC's.

Maybe what you need to do is get a prescription for some anti-depressants, then sneak them into her food for a couple of weeks.

Or maybe that would be really stupid.

seebs

Perhaps - but there's a *lot* of variety. People convert to and from religious belief systems all the time.

If you're not interested in the God thing, and she is, then I don't see why she shouldn't try to be the religious leader. It's an uncontested opening.

I would say, though, maybe you should be less pushy on the kids thing. Many atheists I know (and a fair number of Christians, although not as many) have agreed to raise the kids with religion as an option.

Well, I'm not convinced it is. You sure seem to be doing your level best to seek truth; I can't complain about that.

I think you can. Well, maybe you can't; you seem like a nice guy. People can, and do.

Yeah. It's frustrating, because I think they're making a huge mistake.

Probably true. This is one of the reasons I'm vehemently opposed to unthinking literalism.

I guess that depends on how this fight gets resolved. I've known Christians married to non-believers who resolved it in much more peaceful ways. *sigh*.

BadBadBad

That's funny. I know exactly what you're saying. That's what I've been saying for two days now. I've been doing this Texas church lady satire. Of course it's ridiculous, and oh no, no christian would ever act like that. The sad thing is that I'm not stretching that far. The only boundary is embarrassment to come out and be open about the religion they believe in. They don't ever say these things, and they won't ever admit that's how they view things, but when you look at everything else, that's the only thing that really fits.

seebs

Either that, or maybe there's a lot of different types of Christians, and we don't all agree with each other.

I mean, this is like talking to someone who says "I vote Democratic because I think Republicans are trying to push religion on my family", and asserting that they're just *embarassed* to admit that they're actually hoping for welfare handouts.

I am not saying *no* Christians act like that. I'm saying *not all* Christians act like that.

IMHO, what the "heathens" need is some personal space and encouragement as they go about seeking truth and doing their best not to get taken in. Also MHO is that Darren could have a real live born-again conversion tomorrow, and his marriage would still have a sucking chest wound until his wife admits that counseling might help.

BadBadBad

You damn right she does. If it weren't for you and Satan anyway, and you can bet she's home on her knees praying convulsively to the Lord Jesus Christ in a puddle of her piss, vomit, and tears that you stop doing that, and God save us all if you don't.

If only she knew what the EVIL ATHEIST and SATAN were up to (let's not forgot who you're workin with here)!! You think she's depressed now. Wait til she starts thinking about the eternal bliss of heaven knowing every second for eternity that her beloved kids are roasting in hell all because of you. Boy you ain't see nothing yet. You're gonna wish you were pissin an puking and pray'in to Jeeeusus when she gets done with you!

I am telling you. The maddest I ever made my wife, I told her that's what eternity just might be for her. I kid you not. You are treading on some serious shit. You can forget about your marriage. That's nothing.

I can't help it, that pissin and pukin and convulsing and praying dear god jesus shit is just making me laugh every time I read it.