Rhea

Oh and I think it's important for you to know that we often feel this way when we take it correctly. Not sure if you realized that.

They are "just trying to help" beacuse they have a "better way". This is profoundly annoying.

Wasn't sure if you realized that by assuming it was only us misunderstanding that was the problem, that you were missing your opportunity to see things from the listener's POV. Verily, I say to you, we often understand perfectly, and it's insuolting.


I have a friend who is constantly telling me that I should pluck my eyebrows because it would make me more attractive. She means well, after all she is just trying to help. Yet, it remains an insulting comment, don't you think? I don't think I'm taking it wrong, I understand that she thinks being artificially attractive is going to make me happier. What is intensly irritating is her inability to see that I don't need that to feel happy. In fact, I am happier than she is. Go figure. But it's both insulting to remind someone that you find them less attractive and irritating to have them fail to notice your happiness.

Yet, if I ever tried to explain to her that her comments are inappropriate, SHE would get all pissed off and accuse me of being nasty and sarcastic. I'm just trying to tell her that figuratively her fly is down, and _I'm_ the bad guy.

Go figure. (another manifestation of me being happier. funny how that works!)

Muffinstuffer

I do understand that. But, as I pointed out, and as you may or may not agree, taking it correctly or not has much to do with how the person comes across. If someone tries to witness to me ONE time, and I jump the gun and get on their case because I've heard this before, and it turns out they only planned on trying ONCE, and never again....well, to me, that is taking it incorrectly, because their intention was never to bug me and upset me. Now, if they do it AGAIN and AGAIN, even after I tell them not to....well, I know exactly what they're trying to do, and I'm taking it correctly, and I (as well as you) have every right to get upset.

*LOL* Understood.

Well there you go, though. For one, she tries to tell you this CONSTANTLY, not just once or twice. For two (and I am assuming your explaining is not done with shouts and cats o' nine tails ), when you try to explain it to her, she gets all pissed off. Any reasonable person will understand after being told once, MAYBE twice, that the other person doesn't want to hear it, and they'll shut up.

Bree

:notworthy it's the whole idea that your life is somehow "bad" and theirs is "good" that pisses me off. my life is my life, and whether it is good or bad is entirely up to me. if my life was truly bad and i needed your help, i'd probably ask for someone to be a lunch companion or simply be there for a phone call if i'm stressed out. that's real help, in my opinion - offering jesus is to me a cop out. you don't want to really help out so you'll pray for me for five minutes and send jesus my way. thanks but no thanks.

Muffinstuffer

If you believe that about me, then ask me about my efforts to help others who have been abused by their parents in the past. I help them out not because I am Christian, but because I was abused for 9 years, and can relate. As I said before, not every discussion has to be about Christianity.

Rhea

Actually, it was insulting and irritating the first time she said it. But my lack of rebut on that instance was not because I knew she "meant well", it was because I knew she would not be able to comprehend my viewpoint and it was therefore a waste of time. I think abother person would have been justified in a snarky retort, despite there being no point to it.

If that makes sense. In otherwords, I would not tell them they just misunderstood and didn't need to feel pissy, but rather that they understood perfectly but getting pissy wouldn't correct anything in someone who would make such a comment in the first place. (wwhooooooshhh over her head).

"You're ugly and sad. You should be more like me, it's better."
"uh, I may be ugly, but I'm not sad, and you're rude for saying the first and blind for thinking the second."
"no need to get all bitchy and pissed off!"


Muffinstuffer (do you mind if I ask what that means, by the way? I'm hesitant to say what it sounds like...), I understand that you are saying YOU would never say it more than once and YOU get to know the person. But your OP was about how we react to others, and you still need to consider how we are to deal with the fact that you are the 600th witness, yanno?

I agree completely that if THEY bring it up it is rude for them to turn it into a rant about YOU. Can't justify that one and won't try.

Muffinstuffer

Oh. Sorry then.

Yeah I understand overall. Considering that conversation as being a standalone conversation by itself, I think it would be a bit overreactionary for anyone to just scream and yell n stuff. Considering it might be the 234354th time, maybe not. *L*

Very true. As far as my name goes, you might be disappointed. I felt bold one night and figured I'd enter a Christian chat room I go to as 'Stud Muffin.' I fatfingered it, and I entered as "STUFF Muffin." I caught hell for it, and ever since then I just stuck with it.

Yeah. Now, if they want to rant in general about Christianity, feel free to. Matter of fact, about more than a few things I am in agreement with. (Televangelists, for one. )

Derweisswolf

Wow, Muffinstuffer. You really hit a note on this one, it's actually taken me a while to read thru all the responses. Kudos!!! :notworthy

I'm also a newbie here, so let me preface my comments by saying that I am an agnostic. I stand wavering in the middle... but leaning into the disbelievers camp. I was raised to be polite, mannerly, and to say nothing at all if I had nothing nice to say (yes, Mom!) -- and that still effects me today, up to a point. But although YOU may "witness" only once, after discerning whether or not the individual is receptive to it, know that from my experience you are the exception NOT the rule. My mother (definitely a Christian, Episcopalian by denomination) also told me that you should never enter into discussions about religion or politics if you expect your polite company to remain polite. Unless of course they share your views, in which case you'll re-affirm each other's beliefs.

Sorry to burst THAT bubble, but I:
a. Am a generally happy person
b. Feel guilt only when I believe I have hurt another in some way
c. Am only bitter towards my ex
d. Am also generally forgiving, although I don't forget serious breaches of trust

Of course, I'm not a stereotypical female either!

I am willing to sit down and discuss religion with someone who is willing to do so in a respectful, calm, and factual manner. No preaching. No insinuations that I will go to "Hell" (although I understand Hell, Michigan is a rather nice place!). And if I have a differing opinion, show me the respect of considering it on its own merits -- not just dismissing it out of hand because it disagrees with what your particular Christian church has interpreted as the truth.

Welcome and may all of your conversations here be open-minded and inspire good will for all humankind!

Muffinstuffer

No kidding. I am still unsure as to whether or not this is a good thing. I'll assume it is for now.

Yeah, I know this, unfortunately. Now granted, I pray for people, I sometimes wish they'd agree with my point of view...you know, all the stuff that Christians do. But as far as witnessing and sharing, if someone does not want to listen, they DON'T WANT to listen.

True. Of course, if you're already IN a discussion about religion in general, and it's one of those where you're expressing, comparing and contrasting views...well, that's different. My Wiccan buddy and I do this ALL the time and we have great respect for one another, and never hand out any beatdowns.



Well, as I said before, in this thread I think, a lot of the members here are challenging the stereotype.

That describes pretty much all of my discussions. As I've said before, if someone ASKS me my opinion, and asks about my faith and I know they want to learn more, then I'll share with them; or if it is applicable to the situation (mostly when I'm with Christians...sometimes when I am not), I might share. But I always show respect for others.

DMB

How do you know that he isn't gay?

Why shouldn't he be gay?

Let's all celebrate Tinky Winky in his full gaiety!

As a European, I am used to living in a society where most religion these days takes a pretty low profile. Despite my country of origin having an established church, most people I come across are unbelievers. I have had a few friends who were CofE vicars, and not one has ever tried to convert me. I suppose they wouldn't have remained my friends if they had.

After a great deal of religious indoctrination at school, I decided about 50 years ago that I was extremely doubtful about xian doctrine. About 45 years ago I became sure of my atheism and turned to humanism as a positive life-stance. My humanism is very important to me. I see religion as a tragic cause of dissension among human beings, an appalling waste of resources and a horrible delusion which the deluded are often intent on forcing on others. I don't in this differentiate between xianity and islam: they are both wrong-headed and intolerant and dedicated to proselytising.

I don't write the foregoing in an attempt to be offensive; it is my sincere view. Nevertheless, bad as I think religion is, I do not go out of my way to try to convert religious believers to atheism. I think that would also be true of many of the members of this board. IMO religion is fairly harmless if it is merely a private belief. It becomes objectionable when believers try to foist their particular beliefs and practices on others.

From my observation of religion in the USA, it seems to me to be frequently oppressive and careless of the rights of those who think differently. If only xians would follow the advice of Jesus and go and pray privately in a closet rather than thrusting their religion in the faces of others! Why should there be public xian prayer at graduation ceremonies? Should there also be muslim, hindu, buddhist and wiccan ceremonies? How about a bit of aztec human sacrifice? What about public self-castration for the mother goddess?

My understanding of the US constitution is that one of its raisons d’être is to protect the rights of the minority. "Democracy" was originally a pejorative word that meant "mob rule". I would hope that our civilisation has by now progressed to a more sensitive and mature understanding of what it means, and that should not include the tyranny of the majority over the minority.

In your OP I see a shadow of the usual xian mentality that your particular religion is the true one and therefore distinguished from all the others, so that your "witnessing" is important and tolerable. I have to say that I am an equal-opportunity sceptic. I equally disbelieve all religions, their hells, heavens and reincarnations, their gods, demons, prophets and djinns, and astrology, and numerology, and pyramidology, and alien abductions, corncircles, etc. as well as fairies at the bottom of my garden. I am very happy not to believe in any of this.

I would wish for you to shake off your belief and find true happiness without it, but I am not going to witness to you.

Derweisswolf

If only all humans, of all religious, political, and ethnic backgrounds could react in the same way -- We would finally achieve the "Peace on Earth" that prejudice, bigotry, and close-mindedness propagate in our world!