Freethought & Rationalism Archive

tgamble · 05-10-2002, 03:32 AM

In talking with a cretinist I pointed out the following.

>>Almost all animals make Vitamin C inside their bodies. It was predicted that humans are descended from creatures that could do this, and that we had lost this ability. (There was a loss-of-function mutation, which didn't matter because our high-fruit diet was rich in Vitamin C.) When human DNA was studied, scientists found a gene which is just like the Vitamin C gene in dogs and cats. However, our copy has been turned off. >>

his response:

Quote:

So they had to keep looking until they found a similarity. Interesting it wasn't found in the chimp which is supposed to be our closest relative. Unfortunately it was in a dog. Cats I like.

Obviously he's missed the point. I was just wondering if it was accurate that the vitemen c gene in chimps was a) identical to humans and b) was also turned off. This seems to be a logical prediction.

nogods4me · 05-10-2002, 04:20 AM

IIRC, none of the apes can synthesize vitamin C, and they all share the "disbled" gene.
a quick google search should turn up many references, or someone here can post a link or two i am sure.

Kosh · 05-10-2002, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:

Obviously he's missed the point. I was just wondering if it was accurate that the vitemen c gene in chimps was a) identical to humans and b) was also turned off. This seems to be a logical prediction.

Ergaster (Deb) posted a great chart showing
side by side pics with ape/chimp/human genes.
It showed clearly how the mutations were
the same. And yes, you're right, the guy
completely missed it. Look at the "care and
feeding" thread from when Bait was still on
the hook.

theyeti · 05-10-2002, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgamble:

Obviously he's missed the point. I was just wondering if it was accurate that the vitemen c gene in chimps was a) identical to humans and b) was also turned off. This seems to be a logical prediction.

All primates have this as a pseudogene. This means that humans, chimps, old world monkeys, new world monkeys, and I presume lemurs all have the gene "turned off" (the proper expression is "pseudogene", as perfectly functional genes can be turned on and off during development). Dogs, cats, and all other mammals with the exception of guinea pigs have the gene functioning properly. I seriously doubt that the pseudogene is identical in humans and chimps, given that it's free to accumulate mutations, but I'm willing to bet that it's most similar between humans and chimps, less similar between humans and oragnutagns, less similar still between humans and old world monkeys, etc.

theyeti

Godless Dave · 05-10-2002, 10:53 AM

Quote:

So they had to keep looking until they found a similarity.

Yep, it's called research.

tgamble · 05-10-2002, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave:


Yep, it's called research.

he's a creationist. His idea of research is to read the bible.

scigirl · 05-10-2002, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godless Dave:


Yep, it's called research.

HA HA HA HA HA.

Oh wait, that isn't funny!

scigirl

tgamble · 05-10-2002, 01:14 PM

Well, now I'm being mocked because I have chimps for relatives. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Is there anyone more stupid than a cretinist?

Daydreamer · 05-11-2002, 04:41 AM

*sarcasm*
1/2 a cretinist?

Oh, wait, according to cretinism such systems are irriducibly complex, so since a 1/2 a cretinist can't do anything productive for the society as a whole (can a whole cretinist?), there will never, nor can ever be such a thing.

Thus 1 cretinist is rock bottom.
*/sarcasm*

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05-10-2002, 04:20 AM	#2
nogods4me Contributor Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Baltimore, MD USA Posts: 17,432	IIRC, none of the apes can synthesize vitamin C, and they all share the "disbled" gene. a quick google search should turn up many references, or someone here can post a link or two i am sure.

05-10-2002, 01:14 PM	#8
tgamble Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: St. John's, Nfld. Canada Posts: 1,652	Well, now I'm being mocked because I have chimps for relatives. <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> Is there anyone more stupid than a cretinist?

05-11-2002, 04:41 AM	#9
Daydreamer Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 221	sarcasm 1/2 a cretinist? Oh, wait, according to cretinism such systems are irriducibly complex, so since a 1/2 a cretinist can't do anything productive for the society as a whole (can a whole cretinist?), there will never, nor can ever be such a thing. Thus 1 cretinist is rock bottom. /sarcasm

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