FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-22-2002, 01:23 AM   #91
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: California
Posts: 53
Post

A quick comment about the link posted. Don't respond to this, Chip, it's not for you. That site hardly qualifies as objective (thus, I was telling the truth when I said no objective sources had been cited). Every single paper, article, and speech available there is strictly pro-CF. Why won't they include critical articles? Or, if they do have them indexed, why are even their abstracts hidden? I am not very familiar with the experimental protocols involved, and opposing views are not present, so I cannot comment on those papers. Some of their theoretical papers, however, require that a large array of observations and experiments from particle physics be completely wrong. In at least two papers, it is claimed that NCM would explain CF. That may be true, but it would require certain areas of quantum mechanics to be changed drastically, and would require quantum chromodynamics (QCD) to be completely false. The problem is, QCD explains mesons, the strong nuclear force, and the magnetic moment of the neutron. NCM would require a new model for the strong force and is not compatible with mesons (over a dozen of different ones have been observed) or the magnetic moment of the neutron.

That being said, there was a bit of useful information there. Julian Schwinger (I'm believing this not because of who he is, but rather because he makes some valid points) briefly presented a hypothesis* that could explain weak, intermittent CF without any changes to our current physical models. This must be pursued, wherever it leads. But if the articles on that site are any indication, it will never be critically examined as all hypotheses must.

*He made it very clear that he was only proposing a speculative hypothesis, not a theory or statement of fact.

[ November 23, 2002: Message edited by: Gauge Boson ]</p>
Gauge Boson is offline  
Old 11-23-2002, 09:32 PM   #92
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 382
Post

Got my copy of Phenomenon; The Lost Archives, Heavey Watergate (2000) today from Blockbuster online for about $12. You get to see numerous experimental set ups where excess heat and helium production is claimed (hot enough to boil the water).

Dr. Bob Bush who worked with Dr. Edmund Storms conducting experiments into CF at Los Alamos Laboratories in New Mexico states in person, “We were seeing this marvelous effect of excess power and integrated over time, excess heat in our own laboratories so it wasn’t as if we had to take somebody else’s word for it. We had proved it. The conclusion was that the amount of palladium that you could fit on your thumb would be enough to produce a reactor that would supply the city of Los Angeles with all their power needs.” Dr. Storms also offers much testimony.

Just after F & P came forth with their claims and Texas A & M University’s Dr. John Brockis announced confirmation of finding excess heat as well as tritium using similar experiments as F & P, President George Bush Sr. appointed a panel of 22 expert scientists to look into the matter. They conducted experiments and deduced that nothing was happening. Afterward, two of the panel approached Dr. Storms seeking funding to conduct further research. In other words, though they had testified that it was without merit, these two remained unconvinced attesting to the very real possibility that the congressional testimony made in congress by the panel denouncing F & P’s experiments was stretching the truth. The result of the panel’s testimony to congress was that all federal funding for any such research was curtailed, papers describing such were denied publishing in major journals and patents for technology claiming such results were not even considered. This is the state of federal and associated journals (AAAS) involvement to this day.

Both the graph of the raw data and the graph presented in MIT’s official report are shown in the film (side by side and overlaid) and you can clearly see how the data was altered to negate the findings of F & P. Dr. Charles Vest, president of MIT at the time, ran an investigation into the claim that the data was misrepresented. He was concurrently a member of the White House advisory panel for the funding of hot fusion. He concluded that the data was not altered. Engineer and chief science journalist for MIT, Eugene Mallove (who is now the editor for Infinite Energy magazine, <a href="http://www.infinite-energy.com)" target="_blank">http://www.infinite-energy.com)</a> resigned in protest. Immediately afterward, MIT received massive funding for its hot fusion research. Still, Dr. P. Hagelstein of MIT Research Laboratory of Electronics continued experimenting with CF for the next decade and as of the time of this documentary, 2000.

Gary Taubes (sp?), a science journalist had a paper published in Science denouncing the Texas A & M confirmation of F & P’s findings as fraudulent, going so far as to claim the experiments had been spiked with tritium for that additional claim as well as the excess heat. Taubes' allegations of fraud were eventually proved false. Texas A & M considered firing Brockis and conducted their own investigation where they exonerated him of all of these false charges.

Concerning CETI, Motorola conducted experiments of their own using the nickel-palladium beads of CETI’s design and confirmed production of excess heat which lead to Motorola planning to buy out CETI. As Gauge Boson provided earlier in this thread, other experiments using CETI designs did not pan out and Motorola eventually dropped their takeover plans.

Dr. Kevin Wolf, physicist at Texas A & M University found evidence of silicon, iron, copper, zinc and gold having been produced by CF cells. Researchers at Okaido University in Japan also found transmutation and production of elements “from iron to platinum” along with excess heat.

Dean Stockwell reports that by 1999 thousands of papers in peer reviewed scientific journals had been published. In 1999 the Department of Energy awarded a grant to Professor George Miley to study the transmutation of nuclear wastes via CF cells but the grant was retracted within a couple of months upon advice by a panel including Dr. John Huzeinga, who was on the original 22 member panel and is adamant about any claims of CF being pathological science. The film brought forth evidence, one here-say and one directly from a physicist, stating that they were warned that if they published their experimental findings that supported the claims of F & P they would be fired.

An unrecognized narrator states “It has been estimated that 250 miles of [train] coal cars could be replaced by as little as one pick-up truck full of heavy water. The daily waste of a one thousand megawatt cold fusion plant would be approximately 150 grams of helium which is harmless compared to some 30,000 tons of carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and other wastes produced by a fossil fuel plant.” Dr. M. Srinivason, Babba Atomic-Research of India, who was one of those to provide early confirmation of the F & P experiments, states “The investments required are much smaller.”

Mallove states “I think the electric power grid will absolutely whither away. I think automobiles, trucks, trains, planes; all forms of transportation; will use this new powerful energy source…. The fossil fuel age is about to end.”

Dr. Stanley Pons: “Without some morals or something to believe in on this planet, be it god or science or whatever you truly believe in, what do you have? What do you have? What reason do you have to survive? What reason do you have to go on? We did nothing wrong. We made no mistakes in our observations. We made no mistakes.”

The investigative team that made this film concludes that there was and continues a conspiracy to silence and squelch the research into and development of CF.

Regards, Chip

[ November 25, 2002: Message edited by: Chip ]</p>
Chip is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:23 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.