Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Gar · 06-08-2002, 02:18 PM

Out of all the different religious types, I definitely hate missionaries the most. The fact that they dedicate themselves forcing their beliefs upon others really brings out the beast in me. As far as missionaries go, I'd say one less makes it a better world.

Their kids, on the other hand, are a diferent story. I feel really bad for their kids for both having fundy parents, and having them die for it.

The worst part is that this will most likely make them dig in their heels when it comes to their faith.

[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Gar ]</p>

Hugo There · 06-08-2002, 03:16 PM

The man died for his beliefs. He meant no harm to anyone. Gloating over his death simply because he was a Christian missionary is really sad.

Hugo

Liquidrage · 06-08-2002, 03:31 PM

I agree with Hugo but I also believe that there is nothing wrong in critizing the acts of someone that has died.

I would just suggest to use tact when discussing it.

Myself, I think it's sad when violence takes the life of anyone. I also believe it is wrong to go out of your way to push you view on others without an invitation to do so.
I would consider pushing your views on others to be the lesser of two evils.

Hugo There · 06-08-2002, 03:43 PM

I think often in poverty stricken areas individuals are more enticed into believing than pushed. Small investments in food, clothing and shelter to those in dire need can certainly give you an ability to influence their beliefs. I think this is limited however. I think you end up with many who practice the missionarries belief when the missionaries are around and practice their original faith, or lack thereof, at home.Overall I think missionaries probably do more good than harm.

Hugo

Vorkosigan · 06-08-2002, 03:54 PM

We in the US, have to consider the fact that one of the reasons we are hated is because of fundy missionaries. They go into countries which have established religions and sometimes ancient traditions and spout their fundamentalist protestantism. It is outrageous and obviously offends many people.

Sullster, fundy missionaries, while contemptible and exploitative, are not an important reason for hatred of the US.

Vorkosigan

Hugo There · 06-08-2002, 04:06 PM

The fact is freedom of speech and freedom of religion are, can I use the word sacred?, rights. The fundies have just as much right as anyone else to exhort their beliefs. I do not see them as flaming anti-American sentiment.

Hugo

fando · 06-08-2002, 04:25 PM

According to a CNN article, the "missionary" couple were <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/06/08/phil.hostages/index.html" target="_blank">celebrating their 18th anniversary</a> in the Phillipines. They might not have been prosletyzing much, if at all. I still think that it was a very random event and anyone vacationing there could have been taken instead.

sullster · 06-09-2002, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hugo There:
<strong>The fact is freedom of speech and freedom of religion are, can I use the word sacred?, rights. The fundies have just as much right as anyone else to exhort their beliefs. I do not see them as flaming anti-American sentiment.

Hugo</strong>

Sure, freedom of speech and religion are "sacred" rights here in the US, but not everywhere else. Missionaries from the US are usually grossly ignorant and dismissive of a local culture. When they get into trouble after pissing off someone, they run to Uncle Sam for help.

As for inflaming anti-US feelings, I still say that they add to the mix. Religions established in many countries are ancient and sometimes entwined in the local politics. Just who do these US missionaries think they are to go to an area with its own religions and have the nerve to say that their myths are the only true ones?

Why wouldn't the people come to resent the nation from where these missionaries come from? They portray the US as a religious state determined to shove the bible down all throats.

I resent what these people do in foreign nations and I wish they would stop this obnoxious practice.

Hugo There · 06-09-2002, 03:20 PM

I am certain the government of the Phillipines did not forbid their actions. The Phillipines is also (due to some much more coercive past missionaries) a predominately Roman Catholic i.e. Christian country. Americans of all kinds (and their dollars) are welcomed throughout most of the country.Our image problems throughout the world are caused almost completely by three factors 1) Our support of Isreal 2) Our success 3)Our wish to remain an independant country.

Hugo

Ruy Lopez · 06-10-2002, 05:53 AM

from Hugo There:
Our image problems throughout the world are caused almost completely by three factors 1) Our support of Isreal 2) Our success 3)Our wish to remain an independant country.
Hugo
--------------

From my own perspective, a revision is called for:

1.)Support for Israel, presence and pressure applied on Middle East Arab areas.
2.)US triple standards; for a)US , b)for developed countries,c)for developing .
3.)Trade policy
4.)General behaviour of US citizens abroad; it's their ignorance of foreign countries that is most resented.
5.)US success.

Approximately in this order.

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06-08-2002, 02:18 PM	#21
Gar Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Boston, Mass Posts: 347	Out of all the different religious types, I definitely hate missionaries the most. The fact that they dedicate themselves forcing their beliefs upon others really brings out the beast in me. As far as missionaries go, I'd say one less makes it a better world. Their kids, on the other hand, are a diferent story. I feel really bad for their kids for both having fundy parents, and having them die for it. The worst part is that this will most likely make them dig in their heels when it comes to their faith. [ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Gar ]</p>

06-08-2002, 03:16 PM	#22
Hugo There Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: houston,tx Posts: 52	The man died for his beliefs. He meant no harm to anyone. Gloating over his death simply because he was a Christian missionary is really sad. Hugo

06-08-2002, 03:31 PM	#23
Liquidrage Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 1,301	I agree with Hugo but I also believe that there is nothing wrong in critizing the acts of someone that has died. I would just suggest to use tact when discussing it. Myself, I think it's sad when violence takes the life of anyone. I also believe it is wrong to go out of your way to push you view on others without an invitation to do so. I would consider pushing your views on others to be the lesser of two evils.

06-08-2002, 03:43 PM	#24
Hugo There Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: houston,tx Posts: 52	I think often in poverty stricken areas individuals are more enticed into believing than pushed. Small investments in food, clothing and shelter to those in dire need can certainly give you an ability to influence their beliefs. I think this is limited however. I think you end up with many who practice the missionarries belief when the missionaries are around and practice their original faith, or lack thereof, at home.Overall I think missionaries probably do more good than harm. Hugo

06-08-2002, 03:54 PM	#25
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	We in the US, have to consider the fact that one of the reasons we are hated is because of fundy missionaries. They go into countries which have established religions and sometimes ancient traditions and spout their fundamentalist protestantism. It is outrageous and obviously offends many people. Sullster, fundy missionaries, while contemptible and exploitative, are not an important reason for hatred of the US. Vorkosigan

06-08-2002, 04:06 PM	#26
Hugo There Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: houston,tx Posts: 52	The fact is freedom of speech and freedom of religion are, can I use the word sacred?, rights. The fundies have just as much right as anyone else to exhort their beliefs. I do not see them as flaming anti-American sentiment. Hugo

06-08-2002, 04:25 PM	#27
fando Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Los Angeles Area Posts: 1,372	According to a CNN article, the "missionary" couple were <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/06/08/phil.hostages/index.html" target="_blank">celebrating their 18th anniversary</a> in the Phillipines. They might not have been prosletyzing much, if at all. I still think that it was a very random event and anyone vacationing there could have been taken instead.

06-09-2002, 03:20 PM	#29
Hugo There Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: houston,tx Posts: 52	I am certain the government of the Phillipines did not forbid their actions. The Phillipines is also (due to some much more coercive past missionaries) a predominately Roman Catholic i.e. Christian country. Americans of all kinds (and their dollars) are welcomed throughout most of the country.Our image problems throughout the world are caused almost completely by three factors 1) Our support of Isreal 2) Our success 3)Our wish to remain an independant country. Hugo

06-10-2002, 05:53 AM	#30
Ruy Lopez Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Manila Posts: 5,516	from Hugo There: Our image problems throughout the world are caused almost completely by three factors 1) Our support of Isreal 2) Our success 3)Our wish to remain an independant country. Hugo -------------- From my own perspective, a revision is called for: 1.)Support for Israel, presence and pressure applied on Middle East Arab areas. 2.)US triple standards; for a)US , b)for developed countries,c)for developing . 3.)Trade policy 4.)General behaviour of US citizens abroad; it's their ignorance of foreign countries that is most resented. 5.)US success. Approximately in this order.

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