Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GPLindsey · 02-20-2002, 05:24 PM

Virginia wants to hang IGWT in every classroom. The reason IGWT and "under God" have survived court scrutiny is because it has been labeled "ceremonial" deism--statements that have lost their religious content (supposedly) because they are repeated so often and are so bla. You would think that a court decision that says IGWT can go on money because it is essentially meaningless would be offensive to Christians. But no! They will take any Phyrric Victory they can get. Now they want to use the same court decisions to put IGWT in every schoolroom. This shows how desperately they want their World View confirmed in every setting--it is a sign of insecurity!

Buckster · 02-20-2002, 10:11 PM

It will beinteresting when, after they finally succeed, they try to use it as the bargaining chip to move on to the next step: getting prayer or bibles or religious classes or something into the classroom.

Sorry, it's a non-religious saying, remember?

Toto · 02-27-2002, 11:05 PM

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-In-God-We-Trust.html" target="_blank">Survey of current status of IGWT in schools</a>

Oregon Slim · 02-28-2002, 01:49 AM

Wasn't the IGWT motto a pragmatic wartime (Civil War) political move to get the strongly religious people to support the government and war effort? There was some sentiment amongst the religious that slavery was ok and that South should be allowed to keep it and that the North should return runaway slaves (one of the issues that started the war) because slavery is ok in the Bible.

The proponents of IGWT trumpet the fact that Lincoln signed the bill that first put it on money, but all that Lincoln approved was coming up with an additional motto for money; no wording, subject, or sentiment for the motto was in the bill he signed. The IGWT motto had not been thought of when Lincoln signed.

Jamie_L · 02-28-2002, 04:27 AM

If IGWT has no religious content anymore, why do its supporters fight so hard for it, but not for other traditional American slogans like "United We Stand" or "E Pluibus Unum?" Why? Because they are fighting for the word "God." These people talk out of both sides of their mouth. From one side, "we need God in our schools." From the other side, "IGWT is not a religious statement."

Jamie

trunks2k · 02-28-2002, 07:47 AM

Don't our elected officials have anything better and worthwhile to do?

butswana · 02-28-2002, 08:01 AM

No they don't. They waste our tax dollars talking about stupid shit, and passing laws that don't do anything constructive.

02-20-2002, 05:24 PM	#1
GPLindsey Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 221	Ceremonial Deism and IGWT Virginia wants to hang IGWT in every classroom. The reason IGWT and "under God" have survived court scrutiny is because it has been labeled "ceremonial" deism--statements that have lost their religious content (supposedly) because they are repeated so often and are so bla. You would think that a court decision that says IGWT can go on money because it is essentially meaningless would be offensive to Christians. But no! They will take any Phyrric Victory they can get. Now they want to use the same court decisions to put IGWT in every schoolroom. This shows how desperately they want their World View confirmed in every setting--it is a sign of insecurity!

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02-20-2002, 10:11 PM	#2
Buckster Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 40	It will beinteresting when, after they finally succeed, they try to use it as the bargaining chip to move on to the next step: getting prayer or bibles or religious classes or something into the classroom. Sorry, it's a non-religious saying, remember?

02-27-2002, 11:05 PM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-In-God-We-Trust.html" target="_blank">Survey of current status of IGWT in schools</a>

02-28-2002, 01:49 AM	#4
Oregon Slim Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 283	Wasn't the IGWT motto a pragmatic wartime (Civil War) political move to get the strongly religious people to support the government and war effort? There was some sentiment amongst the religious that slavery was ok and that South should be allowed to keep it and that the North should return runaway slaves (one of the issues that started the war) because slavery is ok in the Bible. The proponents of IGWT trumpet the fact that Lincoln signed the bill that first put it on money, but all that Lincoln approved was coming up with an additional motto for money; no wording, subject, or sentiment for the motto was in the bill he signed. The IGWT motto had not been thought of when Lincoln signed.

02-28-2002, 04:27 AM	#5
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	If IGWT has no religious content anymore, why do its supporters fight so hard for it, but not for other traditional American slogans like "United We Stand" or "E Pluibus Unum?" Why? Because they are fighting for the word "God." These people talk out of both sides of their mouth. From one side, "we need God in our schools." From the other side, "IGWT is not a religious statement." Jamie

02-28-2002, 07:47 AM	#6
trunks2k Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 6,997	Don't our elected officials have anything better and worthwhile to do?

02-28-2002, 08:01 AM	#7
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	No they don't. They waste our tax dollars talking about stupid shit, and passing laws that don't do anything constructive.

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