Kosh

NO, I'm not talking about chiropractors!

Something that Reactor said in the thread about
Ezra reminded me of something I've been
meaning to bring up here for awhile.

Reactor wrote: "God's ways are not our ways."

This of course is a quote from the bible is
one of those things that Xians often quote when
they can't argue anymore about something that
in the doctrine that doesn't make sense. It's
the "mysterious ways" apologetics.

My problem with this is that it has always seemed
to me exactly the type of thing you would weave
into a cult to head off questioning by people who
might think too much for themselves. To me, this
is simply manipulation, something that cults have
always been guilty of.

Here's another one off the top of my head:
"There will be those who hear, but don't understand". I'm paraphrashing here from memory.
This is of course from the NT, quoting Jesus.
It's often used to explain why some people (us
I suppose) don't believe the Gospel message.
Xians point to it saying, "See, Jesus KNEW you
wouldn't believe because you're too arrogant".
Or perhaps they use it as a pre-ordained destiny
argument that you weren't meant to be a believer
(a doctrine which is so ridiculous I don't even
want to get into it).

Of course, it's also the type of thing a crafty
leader would put in there to persuade his weak
minded followers. "Don't listen to those other
people, they're not able to understand it like
you do, you're special!". Manipulation.

Anyone else care to comment on this? Maybe
everyone can contribute their favorite
list of sayings or attitudes in the Bible that
fall into this category?

Thanks.

Metacrock

Meta ->Ok look, i've tried to be nice. I've tried to have nice little dialogues and gamely endure insults and ignorance. I can't do that anymore. I'm sick of this stupidity. To charge of Christianity with being a "cult" is the height of assingn stupidity! By defition it cannot be a cult because it is the thing that cults are imitating! It doesn't have any of the ear marks of cults, and no sociologist who studies culs has ever tried to say that it is one (and I know that for a fact because I was a sociology major and I studied in the class of one of the major cult watching sociologists). This is just dumb. Get it? Just dumb.

Kosh

I don't recal having insulted you. In fact, you
weren't even mentioned on the post. You did of
course just insult me.

Michael, what was it that lead to Metacrocks
banning last year?

Metacrock

It was the typical double standard that atheists can say anything to attack a Christain and if a Christian defends himself than he's banned.

Moreover, what a crying shame that would be to be banned from wasting my time with people who don't care about the issues and have nothing better to do than criticize things they dont' know about. yea I just can't get through the day without arguing with you guys! What would I do if I didn't have the sec Web to waste my time at?

To answer your question, it's time you guys started thinking about this. I am insluted by what you say about Christiantiy such as implying that it is a cult. I find that highly offensive and I take it personally. What you are saying is no different than if you had called balcks or women stupid and than a black or woman came along and responded and you said "I didn't say that about you." I am a Christain and if you insult christianity you insult me.

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Metacrock ]</p>

-DM-

Why not? If you are a Christian (as I think you claim to be), it should be easy for you. After all, you allegedly have the Holy Spirit residing in you and the power of prayer available for your use at all times. Remember what the Bible says that the Gospelists say that Jesus said, namely that whatever you ask in prayer, if you have faith, you will receive it [MT 21:22, MK 11:24]. Or don't you believe the Bible?

What is really dumb is to state with certainty what never happened -- unless one is omniscient, that is. Are you omniscient?

Christianity certainly could have been and likely was considered the equivalent of a cult (even if the words "cult" and "sociologist" did not exist at the time) back in its formative years. It retains even today many characteristics of a cult, especially in its more fundamentalist or extreme versions. The main difference between then and now, between Christianity as a cult vs. as "legitimate" religion, is that it has achieved social acceptance due to its size and social/political power.

"Cult: A religion with no political power."
- Tom Wolfe (b. 1931), American journalist, author

--Don--

Anunnaki

Thats a very good question. Why don`t you leave us alone and go see what else you could do with your time?

-DM-

This is complete and utter BS, and if you don't know it, you should. This sort of statement makes you appear to either be dishonest or out of touch with reality.

No one compels you to post here. You are free to leave at any time that you find your participation here unproductive and/or unenjoyable -- or for any other reason you might have.

If you take personally remarks which are directed at Christianity, that is strictly YOUR problem.

Did anyone label Christians "stupid"? [The reason that I ask is that the first instance I found in this thread of a word related to "stupid" is YOUR use of the word "stupidity."] If not, then your analogy isn't a very good one.

I could just as legitimately whine that when you talk about the "stupidity" of what an agnostic or atheist posts about Christianity being a cult, that you insult agnosticism and atheism and that I (an atheistically-inclined agnostic) take it personally, therefore I am insulted -- except that I'm not that thin-skinned.

--Don--

[Note: Meta apparently cooled down and then went back and edited out much of his post to which I respond here and in my previous post.]

Kosh

Anyway.....


We were going to come up with a list of things
in Christianity that smack of being manipulative
for the purpose of diverting free thinking and
questioning by the members...

lpetrich

Lucian of Samosata, for example, clearly considered it some sort of cult.

-DM-

Here's a biblical start:

IS 55:8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways, declares the LORD.

MT 17:20, 21:21, MK 9:23, 10:27, 11:23, LK 17:6 Faith can move mountains. Nothing is impossible if you have faith [as small as] a grain of mustard seed.

MT 21:22, MK 11:24 Whatever you ask in prayer, if you have faith, you will receive it.

MK 10:15 Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

1CO 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God.

HE 11.1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

[ January 20, 2002: Message edited by: Don Morgan ]</p>