Synaesthesia

A passing mention to what is perhaps the most fundamental aspect of rationality: theories that don't work, don't eat.

High Ideologue

There are also things that are too complex for us to understand by the science of our day and these things do affect the universe. Are we 'better off' leaving these out of the equation as well?

Below is an excerpt taken from Chapter 10 of the House of Ideology Manifesto located at Http://www.4iam.org

From the strictly materialistic point of view of a life form born to play the dual role of predator and prey in a self-consuming biosphere, it may seem ones’ energy, space and time may be better spent studying finite truth and knowledge based on scientifically reproducible discovery then pondering infinite divine eternal mysteries.

Suppose then that we choose to reject all myth and fantasy based on what is possible within the realm of mystery and use only finite truth and knowledge based scientifically reproducible discovery to build our models of self and world. Taking science at face value offers a rather grim model of self and world. This narrow limited point of view would lead us to conclude that our bodies are finite, fragile, frivolous, forgettable, and doomed to the oblivion of disease and death. That is enough to evoke extreme feelings of sorrow, fear, and anger. Without myth and fantasy based on mystery, we would be without countervailing forces of extreme joy, faith and love. We need countervailing forces of extreme joy, faith and love to balance the emotive forces of our minds against extreme emotive forces of sorrow, fear, and anger. We think, believe and expect that if we unbalance our minds with powerful emotive forces of sorrow, fear and anger that would lead to sad, mad, and bad behavior. We expect that sad, mad and bad behavior would hinder our efforts to create, and survive. Thus from both a material and spiritual point of view, our energy, space and time may be well spent building a framework of myth and fantasy based on mystery that when thought, believed and expected to be true unleashes powerful emotional responses of joy, faith and love.

High Ideologue

I am neither theist nor atheist. I am an agnostic and yet I choose to think, believe and expect that there is a divine eternal essence to self and world because to do so for me produces the most powerful emotional responses of joy, faith and love imaginable.

Demosthenes

Yes, there are highly complex things in the universe, but nothing's beyond comprehension, with the scientific method, we will eventually understand those compex things. Even so with today's science we can easily measure the influences and behaviors of complex things and taking them into account in equations as approximations without ever understanding exactly what makes those things operate. It's the concept of a black box. Likewise we could long measure and calculate the light and energy flux of the sun without fully understanding the details of stars' internals.


Don't you know how untenable the above position is? How can intangible and undetectable things be able to interact with the universe? In order to interact with something detectable and tangible, you'd have to be also tangible and by implication, detectable in some way. An object that is intangible and undetectable won't be able to do that, hence they won't have any influences whatsoever and by consequence irrelevant to the explanation of the universe.

Eudaimonist

I am sympathetic to joy and love, but my own experience is that I don't need fantasy and mystery to achieve these. Also, I don't see human life as frivolous, forgettable, and insignificant. (To whom?) I believe you if you say that you personally need fantasy and mystery.

Demosthenes

thumbs up

I've always found people who considered human life useless and insignificant to be a depressing bunch and I don't need any depression. Life with happiness and unbounded knowledge's more than enough for me

Daggah

Classic misunderstanding of what atheism is, here. Atheism does not say that there are no gods. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in any.

The Naked Mage

But you're still just grasping at straws regardless, friend. The case stands.

Synaesthesia

I'm an atheist who believes that there are no Gods.

Why? God is a bad theory. Not impossible, but God is simply a poor form of explanation.

High Ideologue

I agree nothing is beyond comprehension. That something would created from nothing is beyond comprehension. If one believes in something why not believe in everything? Why not think, believe and expect in a divine eternal essence to self and world?

Yes we may describe the future condition of any one of the parts contained within a chaotic dynamic system as falling within a range of possibilities often referred to as a strange attractor.

Quote:

Don't you know how untenable the above position is? How can intangible and undetectable things be able to interact with the universe? In order to interact with something detectable and tangible, you'd have to be also tangible and by implication, detectable in some way. An object that is intangible and undetectable won't be able to do that, hence they won't have any influences whatsoever and by consequence irrelevant to the explanation of the universe.

It is also possible for something to be detectable and tangible and yet be incompletely recognized for what it is. That has been the position of many ideological authorities who have preceded me. That is my position as well. Think about the contrast between the limited dimensions of our bodies that grow from seeds in our self-consuming biosphere on our crusted magma globe and the limitless dimensions that may be given our spirits embraced by our souls within our minds. We create our unconscious minds using our seed bodies. We select our conscious minds using our soul spirits. Where our seed bodies are fractal infernal temporal in quality of space and longevity of time, our soul spirits may be divine and eternal. Where our seed bodies are alienation infinite in quantity of energy and denominator of continuum, our soul spirits may be infinite and one. With logic and our scientific methods we have discovered patterns in the chaos that have powerful implications for all matter and energy in the fabric of the known universe. Application of our understanding of these patterns to the problems of everyday life has begun to liberate humanity from ignorance and arrogance of past ages and allowed much of humanity to enjoy a standard of living and a way of life of unparalleled luxury and convenience. However, truth and knowledge based on scientifically reproducible discovery is finite and myth and fantasy based on the mystery of existence may be infinite. We only see from our own finite, fragile, frivilous, and forgettable point of view a large universe of the correct kind to support living infernal feeding entities. Because of this we would logically know next to nothing about the totality of the existence of an infinite chaotic dynamic system if such a system should exist at all. It is not been my claim that I know a divine eternal essence of self and world exists. It has been my claim that I think, believe and expect a divine eternal essence to self and world exists because to do so produces for me the most powerful emotional responses of joy, faith and love imaginable.