Jewel

Full article at www.freelancestar.com

Worldtraveller

I think even if I were a religious man, having the same knowledge as I do of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, this sort of behavior would tend to make me not vote for him.

Unfortunately, most of the rest of country lacks the education, or wilfully ignores the intent of our founding document.

This is harder to swallow with every election cycle.

I'm thinking I might have to run for an office just to get the issue out into the light. Whadya think?

Lane

Beetle

The essay sounds dangerously close to saying that religious people should not be allowed to hold office.

Of course the president's religion matters. It's a large part of who he is, and it helps create the prism through which he views the world and makes decisions. You can't have an informed opinion of somebody's ability to do the job unless you know what their priniciples and priorities are, and religion (and lack of religion) are important in that.

We may not all agree with it, but it's certainly fair for him to advertise it to get votes (and for others to advertise it to scare people away from him).

Personal disclaimer - voted for Bush in 2000, will not be voting for him in 2004.

Jewel

I didn't get that out of the essay at all. In fact, I just reread it and I still don't see that. I think the author is pointing out that the office is secular and should be treated as such. I know I'm rather sick of listening to shrubya banter on about his religion in matters office and in speeches. Sounds like the author of the op-ed is, too.

Beetle

The author complains about Bush's constant mentions of god in speeches, and using his belief in god to gain votes. The only way that's ever going to stop is to not allow religious people to hold public office. We will always get this kind of talk from fundamentalists and evangelicals, it's part of their basic make-up. Nothing less would stop it.

So, when I hear people complain long and loud that an elected official's mentions of god in a speech violate church/state separation, I tend to suspect what's really going on is a desire to not let religious folks hold public office.

braces_for_impact

That is exactly the point. Religion will be the prism through which everything is viewed, from the president on down to the people that vote for him. Since religion has this silly idea that they have a superior morality handed down by God, they often feel they have a right to dictate this morality to others and have them follow it. The problem is, in most religions, morality is based on outdated ideas, often made for superstitious reasons.

Jewel

I still dissagree. I know very few religious people that feel the need to shove their religion down the throats of everyone they encounter (especially on the job). I don't remember Jimmy Carter & Ronnie Raygun blathering on about religion at every opportunity -- and both of them are quite religious from what I understand.

The office of president of the USA is a [b]secular[/i] office -- and it should be treated as such -- he did take the oath that he would uphold that great secular document -- the Constitution.

The author of the op-ed does go to extremes, but I understand his frustration. Personally, I don't care if the president ends his speeches with "God bless America and good night" -- I find it silly, but whatever -- it's that any time I have listened to one of his speeches (not that I've listened to them all) he seems to go out of his way to talk about his religion or quote from the bible. I suspect that it is that practice that has the authors knickers in a bunch.

Vylo

I find this to be highly problematic as well. The prism through which everything is viewed should be neutral, not favoring or condemming any religion.

enfant terrible

I don't know if this argument helps too much. Didn't he take the oath on the Bible? And wasn't a minister somewhere around there? I actually don't know if this is true for Bush (I was way down the street among the protesters), but it is true of every other recent Prez except Nixon.

Jewel

That may very well be true -- but it shouldn't be. Don't get me wrong, I'm not so naive as to think there will likely be a president any time soon that breaks that tradition or stops telling god to bless America at the end of their speeches, but Bush goes oh so much further. He is using his powers of office to further religion -- and that's just wrong. And I'm sick of it.