Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Totalitarianist · 08-20-2002, 03:04 PM

Even the kind Atheist people at II try to give
these crazy moral justifications for various
things, but is not effectiveness itself plenty
enough to justify the action or activity in
question?

I do not see why a rational person would consider
anything beyond effectiveness to arrive at a
justification.

In my perspective, what is "right and wrong"
ought to be infered by whether it "works or does
not work".

Mageth · 08-20-2002, 04:10 PM

Pointing a gun and pulling a trigger is an effective action for injuring or killing someone. It works quite well.

Obviously, there is more to whether something is "right" or "wrong" than just its effectiveness.

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

Totalitarianist · 08-20-2002, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mageth:
Pointing a gun and pulling a trigger is an effective action for injuring or killing someone. It works quite well.

Obviously, there is more to whether something is "right" or "wrong" than just its effectiveness.

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

The death of that person has is neutral to those
uninvolved; for his death would be trivial.
However, if the killer were violently tortured
ere his execution in front of the community, it
may have a positive effect on cutting down
crimes of that nature. It is justified by
effectiveness.

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Vir ]

Mageth · 08-20-2002, 04:27 PM

edited for politeness

Michael
MF&P Moderator, Second Class

[ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]

Totalitarianist · 08-20-2002, 04:39 PM

And I am not talking about pointless killing: the
effectivess of an action in relation to a
trivial individual's goal; this post relates to
human scientific progression, political
progression, military progression etc. Not the
progression of some trivial individual. All
politicians ought to consider what works and
what does not work in relation to the
progression of humanity. If killing all
criminals, no matter how trivial the crime, has
a positive effect upon the collectivised
progression of humanity, not some trivial
individual, then it is justified.

Now let us consider your morals for a second.

Is doing something beneficial to the progression
of humanity right, or is doing the opposite
right?

Mageth · 08-20-2002, 04:45 PM

All you're saying is a rehash of "the ends justifies the means." I, and most of society, recognize that this is not always the case.

That's really all I have to say to you about it.

echidna · 08-20-2002, 04:45 PM

I consider that persistently and deliberately annoying other people is a trivial crime.

abe smith · 08-21-2002, 05:20 AM

Well, VIR, you have your values and I have mine. I don't have to permit you to bully me; so why don't you back-off a little & stop telling me what to think? Tous les meilleurs souhaits de la Saison.

Mageth · 08-21-2002, 07:22 AM

I apologize for my earlier impolite remark. Thanks for cleaning it up for me, Michael.

08-20-2002, 03:04 PM	#1
Totalitarianist Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,234	Why cannot more things (i.e., everything) be justified by effectiveness? Even the kind Atheist people at II try to give these crazy moral justifications for various things, but is not effectiveness itself plenty enough to justify the action or activity in question? I do not see why a rational person would consider anything beyond effectiveness to arrive at a justification. In my perspective, what is "right and wrong" ought to be infered by whether it "works or does not work".

08-20-2002, 04:10 PM	#2
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Pointing a gun and pulling a trigger is an effective action for injuring or killing someone. It works quite well. Obviously, there is more to whether something is "right" or "wrong" than just its effectiveness. [ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

08-20-2002, 04:27 PM	#4
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	edited for politeness Michael MF&P Moderator, Second Class [ August 20, 2002: Message edited by: The Other Michael ]</p>

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

08-20-2002, 04:39 PM	#5
Totalitarianist Banned Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 1,234	And I am not talking about pointless killing: the effectivess of an action in relation to a trivial individual's goal; this post relates to human scientific progression, political progression, military progression etc. Not the progression of some trivial individual. All politicians ought to consider what works and what does not work in relation to the progression of humanity. If killing all criminals, no matter how trivial the crime, has a positive effect upon the collectivised progression of humanity, not some trivial individual, then it is justified. Now let us consider your morals for a second. Is doing something beneficial to the progression of humanity right, or is doing the opposite right?

08-20-2002, 04:45 PM	#6
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	All you're saying is a rehash of "the ends justifies the means." I, and most of society, recognize that this is not always the case. That's really all I have to say to you about it.

08-20-2002, 04:45 PM	#7
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	I consider that persistently and deliberately annoying other people is a trivial crime.

08-21-2002, 05:20 AM	#8
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	Well, VIR, you have your values and I have mine. I don't have to permit you to bully me; so why don't you back-off a little & stop telling me what to think? Tous les meilleurs souhaits de la Saison.

08-21-2002, 07:22 AM	#9
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	I apologize for my earlier impolite remark. Thanks for cleaning it up for me, Michael.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.