An opportunity to quote the sutta that gives me my pretentious name.....the so called "sutta of free enquiry"......just a little sampler of the Buddhist call ehipassiko i.e "come and see"....

"Do not be satisfied with hearsay or with tradition or with legendary lore or with what has come down in scriptures or with conjecture or with logical inference or with weighing the evidence or with liking for a view after pondering over it or with someone else's ability or with the thought:'The monk is our teacher'. When you know in yourselves:'These things are wholesome, blameless, commended by the wise, and being adopted and put into effect they lead to welfare and happiness,' then you should practice and abide in them..."

I think "commended by the wise" becomes the little bone of contention!! Just who are the wise? Ask a 100 Buddhists, get a 101 answers........but at least the "fights" are more friendly...full of compassion....



[This message has been edited by kalamasutta (edited May 03, 2001).]

'Do not seek to follow in the footsteps of the wise, seek instead what they sought.'
Basho....zen master

Dr wu, that's a great quote.

I think that's an excellent quote but on the other hand, I can't help wondering what's wrong with following in the footsteps of the wise if they actually are wise and if one actually wants wisdom?

When I become wise myself, I will only want people to follow in my footsteps if it will lead them to wisdom also.

Wouldn't it be sad, if one actually was wise and one could see the simple path to the same state, and then saw that people because of their egos, insisted on blazing their own personal trails to wisdom but ended up at a place of complacent, self-deluded stupidity instead?

Fuck I'm deep! In fact....oooh I feel it...yes...YEEEES...I'm wise!

Quick! Everyone follow me!

ohwilleke

Hey, listening to things that are commended by the wise does have something to recommend it over the Western literary device of expecting wisdom to come from the fool.

Do you have a reference for this?

DC

DChicken,

I assume you mean a reference to the meaning of ehipassiko ?

The word is used often in the Pali scriptures as a stock phrase describing the Dhamma.......the actual definition given comes from a book by Sangarakshita called "What is the Dharma?", who states that ehi means "come" and passiko derives from a word meaning "see", therefore "come and see".

The other stock phrases are svakkhato.......well-taught. sanditthiko......immediately apparent. akaliko......not connected with time. opanayiko......leading forward, and paccatam veditabbo vinnuhi.........to be understood individually, by the wise.

The title, The Sutta of Free Enquiry, is as given on the

www.accesstoinsight.org

website, within the texts of the Anguttara Nikaya.



[This message has been edited by kalamasutta (edited May 05, 2001).]

Good one.

There is a Sutta in the Majjhima Nikaya, the "Simile of the Elephants Footprint", where an admirer of the Buddha referred to him as the Fully Enlightened One. The Buddha told him that he was unable to say this with total confidence until such time as he (the admirer) was "enlightened" himself.

I assume by "sutta" they mean "sutra"? This is a language difference?

I searchred that sight for "ehipassiko" and the quote above and I didn't find it. Do you have a more specific reference? I found "kalama sutta" explained but that quote above was not contained in the text.

DC

DC

[This message has been edited by DChicken (edited May 05, 2001).]

DChicken,

The actual translation I gave in my original quote was that as given in "Buddhism Without Beliefs" by Stephen Batchelor.......(well worth a read)

Sutta is Pali, Sutra is Sanskrit......the Buddhist scriptures come in all shapes and sizes! Dhamma, Dharma......Nibbana, Nirvana......Kamma, Karma etc etc....

What's in a name? (or a translation?)

(The translation of the part of the Kalama Sutta I quoted that is in my copy of the Anguttara-Nikaya is different yet again from that as given on the "accesstoinsight" website!)

P.S. To add a bit more concerning "ehipassiko".....Sangharakshita gives a reference of Anguttara-Nikaya ii.54-57 for the words describing the Dhamma (Dharma). He refers to the words as being used within the "Ti Ratana Vandana", or the "Salutation to the Three Jewels", and states that this formula is recited and chanted by "many thousands of Buddhists throughout the world". (Sangharakshita is in fact Dennis Lingwood, founder of the FWBO - i.e. Friends of the Western Buddhist Order)


Another P.S. Perhaps it is really good advice not to be "satisfied.......with what has come down in scriptures" !!

It reminds me of the joke about the English lady, who when told that the Bible would have to be translated for certain "overseas markets", remarked......."I do not agree....if English was good enough for St Paul then it should be good enough for all"!



[This message has been edited by kalamasutta (edited May 05, 2001).]