Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Kalestia · 07-21-2002, 12:36 PM

Um.. yeah.. I really should read the posts in the thread before I post ^^;; Ah well.. About Faith being a Decision/Gift/Whatever...

From man's perspective, it can be like a decision. Faith is trusting God. But the big view is "I can only trust in God becuz he has changed my heart." That ability to trust in God is a GIFT from God.

Faith is trust that God will do what he says he will do. It's believing that by Jesus' death and resurrection, we are saved just as God says. =]

Karen M · 07-21-2002, 12:40 PM

Hello Kally

[QUOTEBut we have the option whether we love him or not. God only wants those who love him, and (after our chance, which is our life) will cast away those who don't.[/QUOTE]

This seems to be in contradiction to Jayman's post who said that faith was simply a conclusion such as the sky being blue and had nothing to do with personal choice?

I assume by, "love God" you are referring to faith as you are speaking of being saved by it...

Kalestia · 07-21-2002, 01:49 PM

By loving God I mean you have faith and, which follows, do God's good works.

When ya really love God, you WANT to do those works (usually)- like when you love a person you want to give them things or show them extra kindness... Or if you love your dog you wanna pet him/her becuz it and it pleases your pet =]

Mad Kally · 07-21-2002, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kally:
By loving God I mean you have faith and, which follows, do God's good works.

When ya really love God, you WANT to do those works (usually)- like when you love a person you want to give them things or show them extra kindness... Or if you love your dog you wanna pet him/her becuz it and it pleases your pet =]

LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR. THIS IS A DIFFERENT KALLY!

Jayman · 07-21-2002, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Karen M:
This seems to be in contradiction to Jayman's post who said that faith was simply a conclusion such as the sky being blue and had nothing to do with personal choice?

Just for clarification, I want to say that my post does not represent all of Protestantism. You'll find Protestants who agree and disagree with me.

Karen M · 07-21-2002, 02:36 PM

Hello again Kally:

Quote:

But we have the option whether we love him or not.[/

Quote:

By loving God I mean you have faith and, which follows, do God's good works.

So, "loving God" means someone has faith and they can choose whether or not to do so as an independent action? We are back to the original question.

A work is something you have to do to get into Heaven, correct? If having faith is something you must do to get into Heaven and it is an individual choice for each person, why isn't having faith considered a work?

Mad Kally:

And here I thought you had done a Jack Chick insta-conversion

Gurdur · 07-21-2002, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Kally:

LET ME MAKE THIS PERFECTLY CLEAR. THIS IS A DIFFERENT KALLY!

Evidence please ?

David M. Payne · 07-21-2002, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kally:
Um.. yeah.. I really should read the posts in the thread before I post...

Actually Kally, many of us here would appreciate it if you would change your user name, as you are using part of a name that is already in use, Mad Kally, and she is an atheist. So to avoid confusion, please change your user name. Thank you.

David

Kalestia · 07-22-2002, 09:43 AM

Well, having faith isn't really concidered a "work" because it isn't something you can do completely on your own. We need God's help in order to have faith

[ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Kalestia ]

FunkyRes · 07-22-2002, 10:28 AM

I also think we need to be careful that we aren't defining a work to be something that its not.

The concept of faith not by works is echoed through many places in the New Testament, yet I never hear of it being argued that faith could be a work- either in the NT or in early christian apologetics that I've seen.

The difference seemed pretty clear to them.

Salvation by Works was following a set of laws in order to be righteous- such as the pharisees did.

Salvation by Faith was the clear statement that no one is righteous by works, not even one, all have sinned and gone astray.

Faith therefore is the only hope we got!

07-22-2002, 09:43 AM	#29
Kalestia Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 24	Well, having faith isn't really concidered a "work" because it isn't something you can do completely on your own. We need God's help in order to have faith [ July 22, 2002: Message edited by: Kalestia ]</p>

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07-21-2002, 12:36 PM	#21
Kalestia Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 24	Um.. yeah.. I really should read the posts in the thread before I post ^^;; Ah well.. About Faith being a Decision/Gift/Whatever... From man's perspective, it can be like a decision. Faith is trusting God. But the big view is "I can only trust in God becuz he has changed my heart." That ability to trust in God is a GIFT from God. Faith is trust that God will do what he says he will do. It's believing that by Jesus' death and resurrection, we are saved just as God says. =]

07-21-2002, 12:40 PM	#22
Karen M Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 235	Hello Kally [QUOTEBut we have the option whether we love him or not. God only wants those who love him, and (after our chance, which is our life) will cast away those who don't.[/QUOTE] This seems to be in contradiction to Jayman's post who said that faith was simply a conclusion such as the sky being blue and had nothing to do with personal choice? I assume by, "love God" you are referring to faith as you are speaking of being saved by it...

07-21-2002, 01:49 PM	#23
Kalestia Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 24	By loving God I mean you have faith and, which follows, do God's good works. When ya really love God, you WANT to do those works (usually)- like when you love a person you want to give them things or show them extra kindness... Or if you love your dog you wanna pet him/her becuz it and it pleases your pet =]

07-22-2002, 10:28 AM	#30
FunkyRes Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Antioch, CA Posts: 173	I also think we need to be careful that we aren't defining a work to be something that its not. The concept of faith not by works is echoed through many places in the New Testament, yet I never hear of it being argued that faith could be a work- either in the NT or in early christian apologetics that I've seen. The difference seemed pretty clear to them. Salvation by Works was following a set of laws in order to be righteous- such as the pharisees did. Salvation by Faith was the clear statement that no one is righteous by works, not even one, all have sinned and gone astray. Faith therefore is the only hope we got!

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