three4jump

Has someone had a good experience with peer pressure? I will agree that no one here has suggested mandatory drug use

yet but I have no doubt someone will before long. Koywhateversi has suggested that we have a moral imperative to use drugs to fight the hypocrisy of government and to live up to our greatest creative potential. He or she suggested that children be educated in how to use drugs properly in order to make the world a better place, and that the only way to truly know what drugs are like is to take them and learn firsthand. And then the next post after that aplauds Koy for this load of crap, saying it was a brilliant speech.

I would agree that we should fight the inherent hypocrisy in government. Is taking drugs the only way to do that? No, but it's alot easier than watching CSPAN. I don't have statistics on which of our revered artists were drug users, but if Koy has a reference, I would be interested to learn more. I would be astounded to learn the percentage was anything like 99 percent or even fifty percent. On the contrary, I would say (without the statistics in hand to back this up) that a greater percentage of art throughout history was produced by people who were mentally ill and had no drugs available to them to help keep them on an even keel. "Manic depression is a frustrating mess," but it can give you good source material for your art. This is not an endorsement of remaining mentally ill when treatment is available; I'm just saying that Koy's assertion that most art was drug-assisted is suspect, and the posters on this board are famous for nailing people for making false statements but they let that one slide and even praised it.

How does drug use spread? I would be willing to bet that every current or former drug user was initiated by another user. Do drug users and abusers use educational, unbiased information to give people the resources they need to make a rational decision about drug use? Has anyone here ever started someone on drugs? Did you explain to that person the potential hazards? Did you refrain from peer-pressure tactics such as making it look cool or rebellious?

christ-on-a-stick

Since you asked...

Several years back, after I first tried ecstasy, I gave it rave reviews in discussions with my best friend. She expressed some concerns and asked if I myself had "read up" on it at all, to educate myself about the risks etc. (which I had). She was interested in my experience but had no particular desire to try it.

About a year later, she approached me about it and said that another friend had offered it to her and she thought she wanted to try it. I told her as much about my experiences as possible (by that time I had done it a few more times) and pointed her in the direction of websites such as dancesafe.org. She did some research of her own, tried it, and had a great experience. Since then we have both done it again, both separately and together, with no incident.

So would you say I "started her on drugs"? She has commented more than once that she is very glad to have done it, and glad that I gave her all the information I did that helped her make the decision to go ahead and try it.

I have, many times, when it has come up in conversation with people who haven't tried it, effectively said that I "highly reccomend it". In addition, I have ALWAYS included how strongly I feel about a person educating themselves about it first and taking risk-reduction measures.

I'm sure that this does not fit the picture you have in your mind of the user saying to the non-user "c'mon dude, don't be a square, try it!" However, it does represent the reality of the way many adults discuss drug use with one another.

three4jump

christ, I don't have preconceived notions, I have my own experience of people trying to get me to use drugs, including cigarettes and alcohol, since I was twelve or so. I don't recall anyone suggesting to me that I do thorough research and consider the possible downfalls. Your anecdote seems atypical. I'd also hazard a guess that someone you initiated had a less-than-positive experience and that you used that example to paint yourself in the best light. If you must expose others to drug use, then yes, I'd have to say the way you did it in this instance was better than most.

Why not say to people who are considering using drugs, "I think you can have just as much fun and be just as creative without using drugs." I can't say categorically that it is always immoral to use illegal drugs. I can say that there are many ways in which certain uses of illegal drugs are profoundly immoral. I can also say that in no case would the failure to use illegal drugs be immoral.

(Edited for clarity, probably not succesfully.)

[ March 15, 2002: Message edited by: three4jump ]</p>

Pseudonymph

Malacalypse...
I decided to take you up on this whole deal about the ob/gyn thing.
I contacted my friend and asked her the specifics about it.(we're pretty close so I didnt think she would be offended.)

She told me that her doc just gave her the treatment for....a yeast infection...??!
What? why? when I asked her the she said the doc said that it was in case she was feeling nervous about sexual encounters or something like that.
Does that sound like a chemical inblance? or just yet another "quick fix"?

And you repeteadly say I have no eduacation about this subject...hey I'm no doctor but I have taken a few pyschology courses and have been at the top of the class each time. In one such course we spent almost a whole semester discussing and studying these and other drugs.

So yes I do have a good knowledge of how they work. And this is where I draw my conclusion that these drugs are abused my many people.

Viti

SirenSpeak...your friend either misunderstood her OB/GYN or the doctor is a certified quack. Any doctor can prescribe antidepressents if they feel they are warranted but the prescription must be for documented symptoms. Have her ask to see her medical records for the day she got the prescription, the notes should say the exact reasons for the prescription and the results of tests or discussions (depression is usually diagnosed via discussion with the patient). My last exam has "Numerous life stresses leading to anxiety, agitation and elevated blood pressure" written on it with a brief list of situational stresses I am experiencing and shared with him.

As I said in my post...I have been seeing the same OB/GYN for almost 10 years. He has performed minor surgery on me, he has seen me the only time in my life I was truly depressed (and had dropped 30 pounds in about as many days), he was the one who diagnosed my ovarian cysts, discussed my infertiltiy with me, let me cry and helped me see all sides of it. This IMO makes him qualified to prescribe me antidepressants if he felt it would be effective and warranted.

Danya

I am sure you don't realize how condescending this sounds:

Comparing difficult times or the blues with clinical depression or bipolar and implying that if people just had a little more 'grit' they would snap out of it is ignorant. Being suicidal or non functional is not the same thing. You don't take drugs like Prozac or Zoloft and instantly feel better or high. It can take weeks to offer any relief and the effects are gradual.

No, they turned to suicide, asylums, or maybe shock therapy. Those were the good ol' days?


Funny since the most common side effect of most antidepressants is a decreased sexual drive.

christ-on-a-stick

Aren't these two totally different things? So yes, you have an understanding of how the drugs work, but to come to the conclusion that "these drugs are abused by many people" wouldn't you have had to do in-depth comprehensive research on a fairly large cross-sample of patients, examining their case histories, reviewing the long-term effects, etc., etc., etc.??? Anectdotal evidence (i.e. "my friend was prescribed this and doesn't seem to need it"...) is hardly the basis for drawing a conclusion.

I'm not about to argue that no-one is ever prescribed these drugs unnecessarily, or even that it's possible that these types of drugs are being over-prescribed quite frequently, but I don't know and would not deign to "draw a conclusion" without proper information.

If it seems to you that your opinions here have been rather stridently attacked, I would venture to guess that it's because on this sort of issue, while expressing one's opinion is always welcome, asserting it as a "firm conclusion" without pretty good evidence/credentials to back it up (a few psych courses aside ) is not usually going to cut it with this crowd of skeptics.

Just my opinion though... could be the coffee (damn mind-altering drug!!!)

Pseudonymph

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Danya:
[QB]I am sure you don't realize how condescending this sounds:

In No way was I trying to sound condescending. And I can only assume you didnt read my entire post. I HAVE been diagnosed Bi-polar and even borderline, at one point. The drugs were prescribed and I never took them.

And yet, I still caqme out on top. No drugs necessary, and these were the opinions of three different pyschologists.

And as for the ob/gyn thing... there was no misunderstanding about what the doc meant. He wanted her to take it exactly for the reasons I meantioned. So yes LadyShea...I think we can deduce that he is a certified quack, top of his class. You make good points about how your ob/gyn is your primary care physician, but I have known this to be the exception, not the rule. Most woman have another, seprate primary, and THEN thier ob/gyn. Most of the women I know anyway...25+

And COAS...After thinking about it for ahwile, I think you are right.
I have observed, and studied AND gained stats on all I have said here(so rest assured, these things don't come from my ass )
However, I can't back it up at this point. I've lost all my sources and other info I used, so I stand corrected(for now...heh)
Part of one of the classes was to talk to doctors and get theier opinions about things and take notes.

You WOULD NOT believe how candid the doctors are about discussing when and why they start prescribing these drugs. Kinda creepy when you think about it.

Danya

Perhaps you were misdiagnosed and never really needed the medication in the first place. If you went to a therapist it seems you did not just get over it on your own. You sought treatment the same way many people do when they seek treatment through their M.D.

It sounds like you have the same opinion of antidepressants that I do about psychologists. I feel therapy would have been useless in my case because there was no emotional upheaval or obvious reason for me to feel the way I did.

Also, I deal with many psychologists and other mental health providers through my job and find that of all the specialists I deal with they are the most neurotic group of the bunch. Imagining some of these people trying to help the mentally ill is a scary thought.

However, I would never make general comments about how it seems everyone goes to a shrink whether they need to or not or that people should just have a little grit and help themselves. If someone believes they are suffering from a mental illness they should seek all possible remedies or medical opinions without the stigma that has prevailed. Whether they do it through an M.D. or a therapist is only a matter of choice. Some people benefit from both.

Pseudonymph

Actually, after each one told me to take medication, I immediatly stopped going to that certain pyschologist.
So yes I can safely say I recovered(?) on my own. Or AKA I addressed the PROBLEM instead of letting some stupid doctor drug me up and tell everything is fine.

And it's hard to believe I would be misdiagnosed by THREE different docs.