Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mithrandir · 05-03-2002, 12:52 PM

I am not asking for a criticism of this person... just look at his challenge, it has been around for a while...

<a href="http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ417.html" target="_blank">http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ417.html</a>

<a href="http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ418.html" target="_blank">http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ418.html</a>

No criticisms please, I would like to see his proposal take place, not reasons why it has not taken place.

Mithrandir

Philosoft · 05-03-2002, 01:07 PM

I know you asked for no criticism, but I can't help myself.

From the afore-linked website, describing the alleged evolution position:

Quote:

b. The Evolution Position:

Over billions of years, the universe, the solar system, the earth, and finally life developed from disordered matter through natural processes.

If the evolution proponents fail to support the natural formation of the universe, solar system and earth (which are not strict tenets of evolution), can they be disqualified or lose the debate on this alone?

In reference to things that would not be permitted:

Quote:

c. Using a religious writing or doctrine to support a scientific claim. (However, using scientific evidence to reach a conclusion that happens to correspond to a religious writing or doctrine would not be a violation.)

How exactly is the difference to be determined? Does irreducible complexity just happen to conicide with biblical creationism or is it only biblical creationists who aver that certain structures are irreducibly complex?

RufusAtticus · 05-03-2002, 01:20 PM

It's a Hovindesque ruse. Brown has little interest in actually debating. He just wants to trick Christians into thinking that since no debate has taken place, its the evolutionists refusing.

<a href="http://baby.indstate.edu/gga/pmag/walt_brown.htm" target="_blank">Meert v Brown</a>

Brown has debated before and did not do to well.
<a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~biochemborg/KLOB/webpages/lippardbrown.htm" target="_blank">This</a> has the references.

-RvFvS

hezekiah jones · 05-03-2002, 02:39 PM

So the creationist defines the "evolutionist" position for the "evolutionist"? Haha.

05-03-2002, 05:54 PM

This fellow, or at least the content of his site, offers nothing but the same, hackneyed and well refuted rhetoric that has been reitterated for the last 150 years. It is patently obvious that the majority of his research is confined to the inbred creationist literature, and that he has failed entierly to find out what real scientists actually have to say on these topics.

It seems reasonable, to me, that few people (those who Mr. Brown is avoiding aside) are willing to put the considerable investment of time that such a debate would require.

Philosoft,
To be fair, it appears to me that the evolution position he presents, although it betrays his very poor understanding of science, is not purported to be a straw man, merely an example of the position one might take.

Philosoft · 05-03-2002, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Synaesthesia:
<strong>Philosoft,
To be fair, it appears to me that the evolution position he presents, although it betrays his very poor understanding of science, is not purported to be a straw man, merely an example of the position one might take.</strong>

Perhaps. But I honestly wonder if the judges would be instructed to take into account the degree to which the 'evolutionist' defended the naturalistic model of cosmology in their ratings.

05-03-2002, 12:52 PM	#1
Mithrandir New Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 4	Creation vs. Evolution challenge I am not asking for a criticism of this person... just look at his challenge, it has been around for a while... <a href="http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ417.html" target="_blank">http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ417.html</a> <a href="http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ418.html" target="_blank">http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ418.html</a> No criticisms please, I would like to see his proposal take place, not reasons why it has not taken place. Mithrandir

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05-03-2002, 01:20 PM	#3
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	It's a Hovindesque ruse. Brown has little interest in actually debating. He just wants to trick Christians into thinking that since no debate has taken place, its the evolutionists refusing. <a href="http://baby.indstate.edu/gga/pmag/walt_brown.htm" target="_blank">Meert v Brown</a> Brown has debated before and did not do to well. <a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~biochemborg/KLOB/webpages/lippardbrown.htm" target="_blank">This</a> has the references. -RvFvS

05-03-2002, 02:39 PM	#4
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	So the creationist defines the "evolutionist" position for the "evolutionist"? Haha.

05-03-2002, 05:54 PM	#5
Synaesthesia Guest Posts: n/a	This fellow, or at least the content of his site, offers nothing but the same, hackneyed and well refuted rhetoric that has been reitterated for the last 150 years. It is patently obvious that the majority of his research is confined to the inbred creationist literature, and that he has failed entierly to find out what real scientists actually have to say on these topics. It seems reasonable, to me, that few people (those who Mr. Brown is avoiding aside) are willing to put the considerable investment of time that such a debate would require. Philosoft, To be fair, it appears to me that the evolution position he presents, although it betrays his very poor understanding of science, is not purported to be a straw man, merely an example of the position one might take.

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