abospaum

Assumptions: Let's assume for the sake of argument that:
1) Jesus was the son of God.
2) The son and the father are both holy parts of the same being.
3) Jesus died on the cross.
4) Jesus lived a blameless/sinless life.
5) God is omnipotent.

A lot of assumptions that are difficult for most atheists to swallow but please do so for the sake of arguement.

Question: What was the sacrifice.

X-ians believe that God love the world so much that he gave his only begotten son. (John 3:16 that we see at all of those football games.) How can this be?

Jesus came down to earth to be a man and live away from his father. His sacrifice is to end his life and go back to Heaven. He knew when he died that he would be back in Heaven.

The bible says that God detests sin and doesn't want it in his presence and this is why sinners (without redemption) cannot be in heaven despite God's will (even though he's omnipotent). The bible also specifically says that on the cross Jesus became sin. Hey. Where did it go? Did God just forgive sin without some other sacrifice? Or did Jesus get eternally damned and put under Satan's control. Now that would be sacrifice but it doesn't make sense from the omnipotent point of view unless he is submitting to a lesser power.

99% of X-ians believe that Jesus went to Heaven after Pentecost. On the other hand, if you or I were willing to take on the sins of others we don't have any definite knowledge of where we will go. We may suffer a more excrutiating death to save others but that doesn't gain us anything, right?

Even if you look at Jesus at having been sinless what does that mean? Nothing. He became sin. He therefore was the most heinous sinner in the entire world. No one was going to take the sin from him or stand for judgement for him. If God cannot simply save people (or Jesus) just because he loves them then what is the purpose of a sacrifice.

Also in Deuteronomy it says "Cursed are those hanged on a tree." If Jesus was cursed that is another reason why he couldn't be in Heaven.

I could go on but let's see what others have to say.

winstonjen

It wasn't a sacrifice - more like a loan.

Radcliffe Emerson

It's always seemed so amazingly stupid to me that God had to sacrifice "himself" to appease his own anger.
Even if a god like that existed, he wouldn't be worth worshipping.

winstonjen

Got that right. He could've just taken a few pills and got over it.

Koyaanisqatsi

It is patently ludicrous to posit a being that sacrifices itself to itself as a necessary condition to save others from its own wrath.

The entire concept of sacrificing is itself ludicrous, so I'm not surprised. I have always suspected that the concept is nothing more than a cult control mechanism, aimed at maintaining social status. After all, what could be more controlling than to force your population to kill or "offer up" their most valued possession (their "unblemished" livestock and/or choice grain)? Only a ruling elite would instigate such an obvious fraud and only an ignorant mass (deliberately kept in the dark by that ruling elite) would fall for it.

What's most disturbing, however, is why so many have and do fall for it on a regular basis. God loved his son so much that he killed him as a necessary sacrifice to save us all from the wrath that god unjustly holds for his own creation; a wrath that should never be there in the first place and one that it could easily disperse by will alone (and, apparently, does so anyway)?

Asinine, pure and simple.

:banghead:

beth

Basically, sin is something that was not part of creation. It basically was a mutation or biproduct of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit. In order for one to be in God's presense or to have his favor on us, a sacraficial lamb must be slaughtered. The lamb of attonement. Christ took the place of animal sacrifice and he, himself became the sacrificial lamb. When Christ's blood was spilled, it attoned for all sin and all that would ever be if one would just accept the forgiveness.

When Christ became sin, God turned from him. That is when he cried out and asked god why he had forsaken Christ. When jesus was resurrected, he was given a knew body, one without sin or blemish. He was perfect and sinless, but his blood bore our sins.

schu

Doesn't this contradict the Bible? Didn't god say he created evil?

I'm with Koy on this, the whole idea is ludicrous and no rationalizing can make it any better.

Craig

Exactly. It's not much of a sacrifice when you know you'll be brought back to life in three days.

On the other hand, someone that does something like running into the WTC to save others' lives and loses theirs- now THAT is a real sacrifice that I think is worthy of noting.

Magus55

Go get crucified to save a murderer please, then you can speak as though you have a clue. :banghead:

Magus55

He didn't sacrifice himself to appease His own anger, He came to Earth to teach of the Kingdom of God, and save humanity from its crimes.