wordsmyth

You would think so, yes. Unfortunately xians are adept at rationalizing inconsistencies with "maybe this" and "possibly that" to explain them. I've seen xians give some of the most imaginative and outlandish explanations for false prophecy and other inconsistencies.

Here is a good link on false prophecy... <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/prophecy.html" target="_blank">Prophecy</a>

wordsmyth

I've heard that explanation as well. Unfortunately it doesn't fit the facts. Follow this link... <a href="http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible" target="_blank">bible</a>

Type generation into the word search engine and it will find every instance of the word generation in the bible.

You will see that there isn't a single instance of the word generation that can be used to back up "generation of man" as an explanation. In fact most instances where you see generation used it is in conjunction with a particular person(i.e. generation of Adam, generation of Noah, etc.)

aikido7

My opinion--

I take it as a given that Mark was the earliest gospel and everything after that is not an original source, but a variation of Mark--however "true" or "historical" it may be.

Given that, many of today's believers are right in line with the gospel writers, for they have fashioned and followed a Jesus which speaks only to them.

Damning cotext and history and the massive consensus of biblical scholarship they fantasize that the parts of the literal text they attend to were written solely for them and their own life
situation. There is more than a whiff of classical paranoia exhibited in this approach and so it is no accident that fundamentalism--and much of "end-times prophetics"--is, ipso facto, not too grounded in reason or dispassion.

Paul's offshoot of the gospel found itself in real trouble when Jesus did not come back immediately to that first generation of expectant believers. Since then, part of the church has subsequently moved that time further and further ahead so as not to disturb the faithful who might have a curious bent in their idolatry.

Actually, it has been a pretty useful strategy for 2,000 years....

Methodissed

The generation argument does not account for the verses such as, "Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matt. 16:28. Wherever "here" was, one can be sure that the original audience is no longer standing. Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27 have similar wording.

I wonder how the average arm-chair Christian (not a fundy) would respond to this discussion? Most people seem to only read recommended bible verses and receive their bible education through the time-tested model, "you talk, I listen." How could a somewhat reasonable person see these inspired verses as valid?

Oh yeah, what is a complement? A trascription or translation error? If one uses the "complement" argument, then how can they trust the validity of any verse. One could easily confuse celibate with celebrate

Cronus Malor

Has anyone seen Dracula 2000? Well, according to that*, there is a verse in the Bible that says that Pontius Pilate was cursed to never die until the end of the world happens. Technically, it could be said that that generation hasn't passed yet, according to modern bible interps. I'm surprised more xians haven't jumped on that one yet.

*And we all know that bad action movies never lie.

CurtX

krazytamak:

I do not really have an answer for this. Possibly the best answer could be preterism, that "Armaggeddon" was possibly a localized event of historic brutality against the Jews (the false religious system of Christ-rejecting Judaism) as recorded by Josephus. From a sermon I listened to, the brutality suffered at the hands of the Romans in 70 A.D. surpassed Hitler's Holocaust. But I personally believe that the end-times prophecies are partially fulfilled already in the history I just mentioned, and partially awaiting future fulfillment (spoken of in the verses metaphorically). I know this answer is probably not satisfying, but it is the best I have for the moment. I cannot accept the position that Jesus Christ and the Apostle John were wrong, so I must claim they are misunderstood by most and possibly were not speaking from a human reference of time.

For more information about the preterist view, check out this link:

<a href="http://www.sovereigngracebible.org" target="_blank">http://www.sovereigngracebible.org</a>
Pastor Dan Norcini's website

Look under Audio sermons, and then near the bottom of that page, starting with "Abomination of Desolation".

Still awaiting His return,
--
CurtX
&lt;&gt;&lt;

[Edited to add the preterism link credit and the url itself--oops!]

[ May 12, 2002: Message edited by: CurtX ]</p>

Cronus Malor

"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place." Matt. 24:34

That generation passed.
The things did not take place.
End of story.

Fastfalcon

I don't think that Jesus was talking about the generation he was living in at the time. Remember, he talks in parables. So in His prediction, he was talking about some future generation. Look at Matthew 24. What Predictions did he make?
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. This means that there will be people who will be decieved by false prophets. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons are the most well-known of the deceived Christians.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. I know that there have been wars for a long time, but the frequency of wars has increased since WWI, and how many rumors of war can you count today?
Matt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in various places. nation here means ethnic groups like in Kosovo. the rest are self explanitory. How many earthquakes have you seen so far? pestilences are diseases. The has been many cases of infectious diseases popping up this year. the latest in Greece
24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
There has been persecutions against Christians for 2000 years, but the muslims and the Chinese are still going at it right now. How much hatred do you see right now? Many Arabs hate the US and Israel and would destroy us if they get a chance. 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. People are killing each other right now. Not only that, just look at Jerry Springer and Maury shows. you see much deceit and evil (the betrayals and the accusations). Not to mention that people sue each other for trivial things.
24:14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The only way for this to really happen is if Christians have the technology that we have now. Computers, TV, Radio, books, the Internet. how many Christian things can you hear or see?
As you can see, the evidence points to that this generation would see all the things that Jesus prophesied come to pass. The generation that sees Israel reborn and in the news every single day, that is the generation.

[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: Fastfalcon ]

[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: Fastfalcon ]</p>

Sci_Fidelity

Hello? Anybody home? I think you are forgetting about Matt. 16:28, are you not?

Talked in parables? Funny how you can cover your ass by calling an obvious, blatant discrepany such as this a "parable", then turn around and interpret literaly when it suits you.

sidewinder

1. Jesus spoke in parables in some of his teachings but certainly not all. There are cases where he speaks plainly. How do you determine what is parable and what is plain speech? The verses discussed are not in parable form at all.

2. The prophecy about many coming and claiming to be Christ has nothing to do with Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons. If Jesus made this statement, he is stating that many people after him, single individuals, would claim to be the Jewish Messiah.

3. The prophecy about diseases, wars, famines, etc. is so vague it could be applied to many different times and places.

4. The persecution of Christians is the Arab hatred of the U.S. and Israel. Ha ha ha ha ha. Give me a break. This is so ludicrous it barely warrants a response. Most Isaraelis are not Christians and the U.S., though predominantly Christian, also has large numbers of non-Christians.

5. The best example of love growing cold you could come up with is Jerry Springer and Maury Povich. Ha ha ha ha. This is a joke, right? You're just another troll, correct? If not, it amazes how many Christians have the thinking skills of elementary school students.